The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
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bridget_night
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by bridget_night » 13 Aug 2009, 10:02

I appreciate everyones comments. I enjoy the perspectives I get here.

My husband and I were reading through the wording of the changes made (see the link): [Moderator: We have no problem with people perusing sites they want to read, but links to explicitly anti-Mormon sites are not welcome here.] (although this is an anti-Mormon site) it seems to show the exact changes. Nevertheless, I will order the manual and read it myself. From what my husband and I read so far, nothing really botherd us. My husband has left the church but not because he did not love the church or want it to be true--he does. He just never got a witness that the BofM promised and so after 30 years of no personal affirmation that the church is true, he believes its just a nice man-made organization. He has no problem with me being active and does come to activities in the ward. He is always willing to discuss the church with me too, and is never hostile towards the church which I feel is a blessing.

Some of the points my husband and I discussed so far are:

1. Because little is known about "Heavenly Mother', we can understand the chruch not wanting to have people delve into the mysteryies which the church has no revelation on. Nevertheless, I do understand why feminists and females might want to know more about their Heavenly Mother. It reminds me of a cartoon I saw in Sunstone Magazine where a young girl is kneeling by her bed praying and says, "Heavenly Father...I hope you don't mind...can I PLEASE talk to Mom?" Since God is withholding that info for now, I have to trust that He has good reasons. The main focus seems to be away from our Heavenly Parents and to focus on becoming like Heavenly Father.

2. I was disturbed at first about taking out the part where it used to say that we should have a personal relationship with Christ. Now it says we should study and get to know Him and follow Him. So, I see this, not as saying we shouldn't have a personal relationship with Christ, but more as saying that you only need to accept Christ and following Him in as requirements for salvation.

3. Apparently, it eliminated the saying that Jesus Christ is our oldest brother or that Jesus was the first born or that Satan and Jesus were brothers. It also eliminates that Eve was given to Adam, denoting that women are not given to men as possessions, which I think is good.

4. In the chapter on the Holy Ghost it eliminates that the holy ghost is a spirit in the likeness of a man.

5. On the chapter on prophets it eliminates the point that God will stop other men besides the prophet to lead men astray. It also elimantes the story of Lorenzo Snow promising there will be rain if people paid their tithing.

6. On the church today it changes that the church was completed during the next several years to would develop as the Church continued to grow.

7. On exhaltation it eliminates the line that we will be assigned to the place for which we had earned for our eternal home and just says we will be assigned to the place for which we prepared. Getting away from the idea of earning things. It also deletes the part that it is necessary to obey all the commandments and be perfect to be exhalted. It talks about 3 kingdoms now instead of 3 degrees. It also eliminates the word 'Gods' but just says we can become like our Heavenly Father. It eliminates the line about blessings will be given to those who earn exaltation. It eliminates the phrase that specific ordiances must be recieved to be exhalted and says instead that faith in Jesus Christ, enduring to the end, repentance and obey the commandments are necessary to be exhalted. It eliminates that we will become exalted, just like our Heavenly Father and says instead we live with Heavenly Father in eternal families. It says that if we are exalted we will be united eternally with our righteous family members and be able to have spirit children also. But these spirit childre will not have the same relationship to us as we do to our Heavenly Father. Denoting we will not be a God but our spirit children will have eternal increase.

8. It eliminates naming a bunch of commandments and says we now must only be married for eternity not time. It gets away from asking questions about the necessity of obiedence and necessary ordiances in order to become exhalted. Instead it asks how do ordiances and covenants prepare us for exaltation and how does faith in Christ help us obey the commdments. It eliminates the line that this is the way our Heavenly Father become a God, but leaves in the line that JS taught that the first principle of the Gospel is to know for a certainty the Character fo God ...that he was a man like us...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus did.

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Heber13
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Heber13 » 13 Aug 2009, 10:14

Bridget, thanks for the synopsis!! Great work, that was beneficial for me.

I found #7 one of the most interesting:
It eliminates the phrase that specific ordiances must be recieved to be exhalted and says instead that faith in Jesus Christ, enduring to the end, repentance and obey the commandments are necessary to be exhalted.
I think this will help members by understanding things this way. I like the edit.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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HiJolly
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by HiJolly » 13 Aug 2009, 10:27

You will have to do a lot of sifting, but all the textual changes are detailed in this thread: http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/ ... ls-manual/

HiJolly
Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations.
-- The Stoic Epictetus

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bridget_night
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by bridget_night » 13 Aug 2009, 11:04

Thanks for your nice comment Heber... I also want to apologize to the moderators and group for the anti-Mormon link (which I am glad was removed then). I simply forgot that this is not allowed here and do want to respect the rules of this group. Thanks for that other link Jolly. I will look it through. Bridget

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Tom Haws
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Tom Haws » 13 Aug 2009, 11:05

bridget_night wrote:It also eliminates the word 'Gods' but just says we can become like our Heavenly Father.
It's interesting that just as globalism and the internet are bringing East and West together and making "the greater culture" more familiar with the idea of becoming God, we are pulling back. Either we are a bit late or there is a deeper purpose to the change. I tend to wonder if behind this is the idea that "glorifying the Father" means, not "becoming Gods" but "becoming God". Anyway, it's an interesting change.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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Heber13
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Heber13 » 13 Aug 2009, 11:23

Tom Haws wrote:It's interesting that just as globalism and the internet are bringing East and West together and making "the greater culture" more familiar with the idea of becoming God, we are pulling back. Either we are a bit late or there is a deeper purpose to the change. I tend to wonder if behind this is the idea that "glorifying the Father" means, not "becoming Gods" but "becoming God". Anyway, it's an interesting change.
I wonder if any criticism from other religions about what we teach in our church classes has to do with the teachings. Do they need to be more vague about things we are less certain about because it doesn't help the missionary work or the retention of members?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Tom Haws
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Tom Haws » 13 Aug 2009, 11:26

Old:
By following the Lord's teachings, we can return to live with him and our heavenly parents in the celestial kingdom.
New:
By following His teachings, we can inherit a place in the celestial kingdom.
Interesting. If our end is to return to the bosom of the Father, I wonder why they changed the wording from "return to live with" to "inherit a place in". In light of the other changes made that de-emphasize "earning" exaltation, what does this movement mean? Why was the word "inherit" chosen? By following his teachings, we won't lose our inheritance? We won't be disowned? What does it imply about the conditions of His love vs the conditions of my love? Are these changes true to recent teachings about "becoming" and "being" vs. "doing", "earning", and "achieving"? Hmm.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

Poppyseed
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Poppyseed » 13 Aug 2009, 11:58

What about prophecy and seership?
Exactly. What happened to current prophecy? Where are the angelic visitations and visions? What happened that seership would be reduced to "feeling the spirit"? It sounds suspiciously like the heavens are shut for some reason....maybe it's just me.
This exact idea has been a concern for me. Thanks for saying it.


And I do like the that the focus is being shifted away from "earning/performance" sort of language. I have thought for a long time that many people are missing a full understanding of grace.
Last edited by Poppyseed on 13 Aug 2009, 12:17, edited 1 time in total.
“Be not afraid of growing slowly; be afraid only of standing still.” --old Chinese proverb

Poppyseed
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Poppyseed » 13 Aug 2009, 12:09

.I submit, with respect to Poppyseed, that the core is indeed changed. The character of God, as brought forth to us by Joseph Smith is absolutely a Gospel Essential.
Yes. I see what you are saying and I agree. I think I was just trying to point out that on the subject of how Father became a God, that we know very very little and that most opinions on this are in murky water. It would seem foolish to put this into a entry level manual. It seems to me a more appropriate topic for Gospel Doctrine class. That is all I meant. I don't want to say that these things shouldn't be discussed or questioned or that we shouldn't even share our collective supposings on the matter. I was just thinking of the venue and the audience. Also, in my mind essential doctrines include saving doctrines and commandments that lead people to saving ordinances. Understanding the origin of gods, whether there are one or many as the D&C suggests doesn't fall under that umbrella. But I do see value in teaching the basics about Eternal progression. And I think it might be a wise position for the church to admit that it doesn't know everything on these subjects so as to prevent misunderstanding.

I wonder if this is why GBHinckley answered the Larry King question like he did -- "I don't know that we teach that" . He didn't say that we don't believe this or that we condemn the ideas.

I will say also -- Have you been in a lesson where this deeper doctrine was discussed? Holy Cow. You get some interesting ideas getting shared. And not everyone knows how to separate opinion from solid doctrine.
“Be not afraid of growing slowly; be afraid only of standing still.” --old Chinese proverb

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Heber13
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Re: The New Gospel Pinciples Manual

Post by Heber13 » 13 Aug 2009, 12:56

I might have to go back to Gospel Doctrine class where people just tell "feel good" stories...

Gospel Essentials is getting too deep for me.
:P
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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