At this point it all seems a bit hard to fully believe. It seems odd and that makes me think about how equally odd the entire story is.
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Seer Stones - Ensign
Re: Seer Stones - Ensign
Do you see it drastically more odd than Moses speaking to a bush on fire? (just wondering how we think through this...not trying to attack...sincerely asking what you think.)LookingHard wrote:At this point it all seems a bit hard to fully believe. It seems odd and that makes me think about how equally odd the entire story is.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
- LookingHard
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- Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11
Re: Seer Stones - Ensign
No attack felt from here. I see that as more of a story than a literal historical fact.
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Re: Seer Stones - Ensign
I also see the picture of Joseph looking at golden plates and translating characters into English as a story.
How Moses actually got the 10 commandments to the people and how Joseph translated the Book of Mormon are not so different or weird to me. We like stories. Facts are weird without the story behind it.
That is something I have been thinking about a lot with many topics in mormon history, including BoA. Then I back into seer stones as not so weird when I really think about everything. They are weird when focsed on by themselves.
How Moses actually got the 10 commandments to the people and how Joseph translated the Book of Mormon are not so different or weird to me. We like stories. Facts are weird without the story behind it.
That is something I have been thinking about a lot with many topics in mormon history, including BoA. Then I back into seer stones as not so weird when I really think about everything. They are weird when focsed on by themselves.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Re: Seer Stones - Ensign
I'm in the same place. I find the likelihood of scripture being translated through use of a stone pretty unlikely. I'm glad the church is putting out this article. I think it's a great step in the right direction, as far as transparency goes. But, that doesn't make it any more believable to me. And, regarding all of the other things like Moses talking to a burning bush, Jonah surviving being swallowed and vomited up, a talking donkey, God touching stones for the brother of Jared, and other miracles in the BofM and OT, I find them all just as unbelievable. The difference is that the people in the OT weren't able to vouch for those stories themselves. JS actually made the claim that he used the seer stones in the translation process. Most of the OT and BofM stories, I can consider allegorical stories and find some kind of symbolic moral in them. But, JS wasn't just speaking symbolically when he made claims about using the seer stones.LookingHard wrote:At this point it all seems a bit hard to fully believe. It seems odd and that makes me think about how equally odd the entire story is.
So, thumbs up for the article and to the church for allowing the research and the publication. But, for me personally, it does nothing to help JS's credibility.
My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6139
Re: Seer Stones - Ensign
Thanks for discussion here. We're going to slow down a bit and address some of my daughter's other concerns that came out in this conversation. (First use of the word "lied" in connection with the church....)
Everyone's got an opinion and I can appreciate that it's hard to choose, but I think it would have been better, if you're going to display or depict it at all, to put it among other objects owned or used by Joseph Smith. It just looks so very strange sitting alone on a piece of fabric.
Everyone's got an opinion and I can appreciate that it's hard to choose, but I think it would have been better, if you're going to display or depict it at all, to put it among other objects owned or used by Joseph Smith. It just looks so very strange sitting alone on a piece of fabric.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust
"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust
"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11
Re: Seer Stones - Ensign
I agree, Ann. By itself it looks weird and hard to put in context.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."