Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview
"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman
"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman
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Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
Excellent. Thanks Hawkgrrl & mom3
Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
Love this part:
Isn't that a key element in staying LDS through changes? Accept what mormonism is...not what we wanted it to be. Stretch our minds beyond what we were taught growing up, and still find the value in it. Accept we are still developing our understanding of God, and that is powerful.Should not Mormons have a connection with God that goes beyond the Church? Do we worship God or do we worship Mormonism? What should we teach our people to protect them from this vulnerability?
PROTIP 1: Avoid Mormonolatry. Stay spiritually anchored in Christ, not just Mormonism. Don’t let anti-Mormonism become a replacement religion.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
- LookingHard
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Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
I have come to this conclusion. I am sorry that many Mormons that leave move all the way to atheists. I am not trying to belittle anyone or a belief, it is that I still find much comfort in the thought of a loving God. As I have thought about this I can imagine believing there is no God and the thought really bothers me. I may be ignoring facts, but I am willing to give myself some slack - even if it is an emotional/spiritual teddy bear.Heber13 wrote:Love this part:
Isn't that a key element in staying LDS through changes? Accept what mormonism is...not what we wanted it to be. Stretch our minds beyond what we were taught growing up, and still find the value in it. Accept we are still developing our understanding of God, and that is powerful.Should not Mormons have a connection with God that goes beyond the Church? Do we worship God or do we worship Mormonism? What should we teach our people to protect them from this vulnerability?
PROTIP 1: Avoid Mormonolatry. Stay spiritually anchored in Christ, not just Mormonism. Don’t let anti-Mormonism become a replacement religion.
Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
I would love to know more about the curriculum-writing process and how the reconstruction is going. Sometimes I'm not very optimistic about it all, so I wonder what he knows.We are in a period of transition with regard to our history. The narrative is in the process of reconstruction. Right now that means there is the standard, comforting story, and then a series of controversies. Teachers are wondering how many of the surprises can be brought up in Sunday School without disrupting the spiritual purposes of the class. In time I think this problem will go away. All the controversial questions will be absorbed into the standard narrative and we won't have a sense of two tracks.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust
"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust
"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11
Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
It makes me think that he believes the church leaders and the groups writing materials are pretty aware of the problems from past manuals and that updates or "fixes" are needed. They just aren't sure how to do it. I bet for a long time, when things were brought up, church leaders just weren't aware if they were valid points of discrepancies or not, coming from unvalidated sources. But now...they pretty much know there is an appetite in today's society for more accurate teachings. The slower they move, the more difficult they make it for themselves with the change.Ann wrote:I would love to know more about the curriculum-writing process and how the reconstruction is going. Sometimes I'm not very optimistic about it all, so I wonder what he knows.We are in a period of transition with regard to our history. The narrative is in the process of reconstruction. Right now that means there is the standard, comforting story, and then a series of controversies. Teachers are wondering how many of the surprises can be brought up in Sunday School without disrupting the spiritual purposes of the class. In time I think this problem will go away. All the controversial questions will be absorbed into the standard narrative and we won't have a sense of two tracks.
Do they care more about the bunches of people that are being put in faith crisis by not having good info? Or do they care more about pacifying the majority with "All is well in Zion"?
The issues are known. It is now a choice on what to do about it that they are dealing with. That's what I hear Bushman saying.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
I suspect the fixes that are needed will have an easier time getting enacted with BKP's passing.
- LookingHard
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Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
I hove some hope that is the case. But working in a big corporation myself - change comes really slow. I would have to think within many of the levels of the church corporation there are BKP-ites that will resist to certain levels changes that he was against.hawkgrrrl wrote:I suspect the fixes that are needed will have an easier time getting enacted with BKP's passing.
Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
And also the passage of time.hawkgrrrl wrote:I suspect the fixes that are needed will have an easier time getting enacted with BKP's passing.
As people see fears go away, and it isn't the end of civilization, nobody is being turned to pillars of salt, nothing really is happening....then...meh...fixes can safely be put in place.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."
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- Posts: 2221
- Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40
Re: Richard Bushman's Recent AMA by Hawkgrrl
Don't forget how the revelation about Blacks & the Priesthood occurred.
The controversy happened over many years.
When the revelation came, the change was immediate.
The reactions of the membership in my ward was interesting to observe.
Most members welcomed the change. (It was an historic event to witness.)
A few questioned it.
Some had a FC over it.
A side note: the person who questioned it the most became our next Bishop.
The controversy happened over many years.
When the revelation came, the change was immediate.
The reactions of the membership in my ward was interesting to observe.
Most members welcomed the change. (It was an historic event to witness.)
A few questioned it.
Some had a FC over it.
A side note: the person who questioned it the most became our next Bishop.