Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

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Shawn
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Location: Utah

Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Shawn »

I was on my mission about 16 years ago and I was experiencing some depression. My mom was working with my doctor back home to get me some medication, but I prayed about it and received a priesthood blessing and felt that I should not get meds. I thought I could get by without it and I let my mom know that.

Then my mission president call me and said, “Elder, you get on that medication.” It was a very important decision to make, so I asked him if he was speaking as my priesthood leader or just giving his opinion. He got upset and told me he doesn't appreciate being questioned like that.

So I did as he said. I remember feeling relieved because my priesthood leader made the decision for me and the burden was lifted off my shoulders. Now I see how twisted that is.

I've been on all sorts of meds since then. I wish I had never tried them. It could be that I really needed them and they have helped me, but I’m pretty sure I would be better off today without them. I probably have tardive dysphoria now (that’s not a scholarly article but it’s interesting, at least). It makes sense that my brain would decrease serotonin production if serotonin levels are being artificially increased. I am now dependent on pills.

I once had faith to be healed. I believed a miracle could occur. Instead, I've lived 16 years with deteriorating quality of life. Meds are not the sole cause, but they have made me feel only half alive much of the time, like I am part zombie. I am often aloof and don't connect with my wife. All of my relationships and everything in my life have been affected in a negative way.

It is said that some medications are miraculous and a blessing from God. I say pills that may cause nausea, agitation, sexual dysfunction, drowsiness, insomnia, weight gain or loss, headache, vomiting, diarrhea, suicidal thoughts, and permanent depression are lousy miracles.

It seems that I'm being told, "Miracles have ceased, so just shut up and take your pills!" I don't know if the speaker is God, the universe, nature, or myself.

I am very frustrated and feeling hopeless. Is this my fault? Should I have following what I perceived to be spiritual promptings rather than listening to my mission president? Have miracles ceased?
Last edited by Shawn on 15 Mar 2016, 12:09, edited 2 times in total.
Roy
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Roy »

Hi Shawn,

I am very sorry for the hard road that you have walked. I do not believe that I fully understand it but I know that you do and that your experience is true.

On a more intelectual level I see how many medications could be viewed as "Godsends" or "miracles". Yet you are correct that they often have side-effects. That I believe is part of life more often than not. What we might call miracles (or perhaps the uniquely Mormon term "tender mercies") do not remove pain and suffering - they just help us to cope with it.

Having said that, not all medication is helpful for everybody and careful decisions must sometimes be made in consultation with medical professionals.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13
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LookingHard
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by LookingHard »

I can't offer specific advice, but I am sorry for your emotional pain and the side-effects of the meds. It has to be hard.
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Shawn
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 14:22
Location: Utah

Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Shawn »

Roy wrote:On a more intelectual level I see how many medications could be viewed as "Godsends" or "miracles".
Yes, many drugs/medications are awesome. My thoughts on meds in this thread apply only to SSRIs and SNRIs. I do not doubt that they have helped people, and I used to believe they are good for me. Now I think doctors need to be more careful about prescribing them and long-term use should be rare.
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SamBee
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by SamBee »

Medicating the populace prevents revolutions from happening. Chemical imbalances are real but so is the poisonous system and environment which helps make many people ill(er) in the first place.

Before anyone cries houha I'm on anti-depressants myself. The side effects are annoying - the idea of popping pills for the rest of my life is... depressing. I'm off alcohol, never going to smoke or take illegal drugs but I'm now physically dependent on something which doesn't even have recreational value.

Medicating millions means fat profits for some people, and the diminishing of social will to deal with (among other things):

* Poverty and crime
* Cultural sterility.
* Materialism.
* Architectural and town planning disasters.
* Food additives and environmental contaminants.
* Toxic work place practices.
* Breakdown of community
* Political corruption and complicity
* Educational mistakes
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."
Old-Timer
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Old-Timer »

I hesitate to do this, but I am going to add a careful Admin Note to this thread:

We are NOT qualified to offer advice or counsel on specific medications. We can offer support and general advice about examining all options and doing whatever is best for each person, and, I believe, we can support the use of medication in many cases without pushing for the use of medication in all cases. We also can oppose the idea that more faith, extra prayers, etc. can solve all issues and cure all illnesses and conditions - which is patently untrue.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Old-Timer
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Old-Timer »

Love you, friend.

I agree totally that letting others make all of our decisions for us is not a good idea. I believe deeply that issues requiring special attention and possibly medication are complex and should be considered from all angles - and that nothing should be excluded in the name of exercising more faith. I also believe that medication is not the answer for all people with all issues and that we over-medicate in our current society.

However, we have under-medicated in many cases for a long, long time - and there still is social stigma against proper medication in too many situations.

Having said all of that, I hope you can find something that works for you - whatever that is and whatever that entails.

God bless you, friend.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Ann
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Ann »

Hi, Shawn - I have so little to offer, but I just want to thank you for the best thread title of the year. I love reading your thoughts. My family is rife with mental illness and my empathetic heart goes out to you. The longer we've each striven with our peculiar problems the better the ratio of good days to bad.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11
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Holy Cow
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Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by Holy Cow »

Shawn wrote: Yes, many drugs/medications are awesome. My thoughts on meds in this thread apply only to SSRIs and SNRIs. I do not doubt that they have helped people, and I used to believe they are good for me. Now I think doctors need to be more careful about prescribing them and long-term use should be rare.
Shawn, I think you nailed it with this perspective. My mother-in-law died from a prescription drug overdose about 4 years ago. She had been on way too many prescriptions with way too little supervision for a long time. Long-term use of medications is sometimes the only option, but doctors need to be very careful with it. I agree that there should be more oversight with prescriptions, because my mother-in-law was going to multiple doctors and getting multiple prescriptions. She had been a nurse, so she knew exactly how to abuse the system to get what she wanted.
On the other hand, my wife spent months in a behavioral clinic due to suicidal tendencies and major depression, while the doctors tried to find a mixture of medications that would help. They were finally able to get her balanced out between the medications and therapy. But until the medications started to kick in and help, the therapy did absolutely nothing. When the source of the depression is biological, medications can be the only solution. The medications definitely saved my wife's life.
I think you're spot on when you say that long-term use should be rare. Sometimes long-term use is necessary, but doctors should look for alternative treatments to help their patients come off of the drugs when it's possible. Medications can be a pretty slippery slope. It takes a good doctor, and a lot of oversight to really manage the situation correctly. Not having any oversight can be deadly, but when prescribed correctly meds can save lives. I wish you the best in finding the right balance!
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amateurparent
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Joined: 19 Jan 2014, 20:43

Re: Miracles Have Ceased So Just Take Your Pills

Post by amateurparent »

Holy Cow:

I see two separate things going on here.

One -- Where is my miracle?

When we want something so badly, and we plead with God with full belief and righteousness, where is the miracle? We are told that pure belief, faith, and righteousness will bring miracles. Church really pushes the belief that we can move mountains if we have enough faith. I have seen faith like that, and the mountain did not move.

Years ago, I ran an ICU on nights. We had a young Muslim mom from India who was dying of cancer. Her family believed that she would be healed because of their devout faith. She eventually started to die. We ran a full code on her for a very long time. Her family was there. They asked us not to stop, they were waiting for the miracle. They believed the miracle would happen. It did not. I have never seen such raw shock. This family's faith was complete. Many would call that faith delusional. They would call that family out of touch with reality. I would agree. It was also the purest faith I have ever seen.

Science and religion clash constantly. Eventually, science wins. Every time . It is hard to argue with multiple studies and independent research. But before science wins, there is strife and angst and calls for miracles.

People with Tourette's Syndrome used to be burned as being possessed by demons. We now see it as a movement disorder. Science won. Mental health issues are now being seen as chemical imbalances instead of spiritual issues. Science wins again. It becomes a difficulty when not everyone in the conversation has been converted to sciencific causes of a particular issue. When half the room see something as spiritual, and the other half sees a scientific reason for the issue, there isnt going to be consensus.

Two -- The second part of this is why don't the meds work better? So many variables come into the chemistry. The one that I have been following is the correlation between depression meds and Viramin D. A couple recent studies have shown that meds don't work if vitamin D levels are low. And when vitamin D levels were normalized, 30% of the depressed study population didn't need meds at all. I find that fascinating.

I do believe in miracles. I also believe in science. In my world, miracles are small and are more about giving small pieces of comfort. For every amazing healing out of 300,000 patients, there were 299,999 who were not healed. Why should I deserve to be the 1 healing? I don't. We don't. Miraculous healings are random and unrelated to how righteous we are. They are not earned. Usually, we are part of the 299,999. That is where we get enough experience to learn compassion and empathy. That is where we grow. And personally, I hate those learning opportunities.
I have no advance degrees in parenting. No national credentials. I am an amateur parent. I read, study, and learn all I can to be the best parent possible. Every time I think I have reached expert status with one child for one stage in their life, something changes and I am back to amateur status again. Now when I really mess up, I just apologize to my child, and explain that I am indeed an amateur .. I'm still learning how to do this right.
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