Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2802
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by LookingHard » 27 May 2015, 19:10

hawkgrrrl wrote:I suggest we forego hands altogether and just bury our faces in the tray like bobbing for apples.
Yes, but only on the right side of the tray. :smile:

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 5766
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by DarkJedi » 28 May 2015, 03:46

I remember you Katzpur. I remember the interview with your bishop about gay marriage because our views on the subject match.

On topic, and as you point out in your OP, I wouldn't be shy about the general handbook not saying anything about a proper way to partake of the sacrament. It only talks about blessing and passing it, it does not describe anything specific about taking it.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 6660
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by SilentDawning » 28 May 2015, 05:59

Also, the D&C says that it matters not what you eat or drink for the sacrament as long as you do it with an eye SINGLE TO HIS GLORY. If it doesn't matter what you eat or drink for the sacrament, when they heck does it matter which hand you use? Does not the "eye single to his glory" apply to the manner in which you take the sacrament?

This kind of thing bothers me. Once, in sacrament meeting, our Bishop made a Young Man say the prayer TEN TIMES. I was ready to stand up and walk out. At some point, you just accept the kid's attempt and move on for the good of the congregation and the experience.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 6701
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by Heber13 » 28 May 2015, 08:25

Not to dismiss or disagree with anyone else's point in this thread, but just as another thought I have...some people really find value in EXACTNESS for special or sacred things to be important to them. It raises their commitment levels and efforts and spirituality. It is a conservative approach in not letting things become commonplace or lose meaning. I often hear it told in church with stories like steadying the ark, that even with good intentions...if the commandment was to not touch the ark, then you don't touch it even if common sense says the thing will fall and break.

While I have my differing views...I try to recognize that others in the church will find value in telling stories and taking things so serious, that they will even teach their children which hand to use, what color shirt to wear, how many ears to pierce, or how many hours to refrain from eating or drinking while fasting and which sodas are approved and which are sin. That is how they choose to teach others.

I think I am trying to work on how to handle myself so I don't belittle the way they choose to worship, even while I simply won't repeat some proclamation about the "right hand is right" because I don't believe it, or other exactness "good ideas or intentions".
Articles of Faith 1:11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
There may be times to stand up to some comments and challenge them openly so incorrect "doctrine" is not perpetuated. Other times, it can be productive to simply ignore it when people (even leaders) share their opinions on what is important, because it often just goes away when it isn't practical.

Just my 2 cents on how I try to process it along with my connection to God. (and of course...I find it helpful to come here and vent about it...helps me get through it when I think others are being dingbats).

Are there other ways you can see make sense why others feel the "right hand" is so important that can help me understand them more? Or do you think they're just wrong?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2802
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by LookingHard » 28 May 2015, 09:04

I like the thought of using AOF 11 as a response. Thanks for suggesting that Heber. I will need to make sure I have it memorized well so I can recite it at a moment when I need it.

I would then add that this is not just for the church talking about non-members. I think the church would be a better place if everyone wasn't trying to fit themselves and everyone else into the same mold. I like this quote I just saw:
Mother Teresa wrote:If you judge people, you have no time to love them
The trick to making more space is to say, "Please allow me more space" without having the other person feel like they are having to give up space.

Roy
Posts: 4825
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by Roy » 28 May 2015, 12:08

LookingHard wrote:The trick to making more space is to say, "Please allow me more space" without having the other person feel like they are having to give up space.
And yet, I think that they are having to give up space. In thinking about the overton window effect that Hawkgrrrl has mentioned - at any given time there is a range of what is taught and accepted. As we creep towards progress in some areas that makes the church less conservative and eternally unchanging in others. Generally this creep happens over generations and is hardly noticable to members. Still there are some that feel that the church is compromising its principles and become fundamentalists of some sort. I personally feel that the power of the internet as sped up this process.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 15836
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 May 2015, 14:16

Just to add to what has been said in recent comments, I never argued with my father-in-law when he would say what he did. It just wasn't worth it, and I wasn't aware of him saying it in any setting where it would be damaging to others.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
Katzpur
Posts: 317
Joined: 26 Jul 2009, 08:40
Location: Salt Lake City

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by Katzpur » 28 May 2015, 16:58

SilentDawning wrote:Also, the D&C says that it matters not what you eat or drink for the sacrament as long as you do it with an eye SINGLE TO HIS GLORY. If it doesn't matter what you eat or drink for the sacrament, when they heck does it matter which hand you use? Does not the "eye single to his glory" apply to the manner in which you take the sacrament?
Wow! What an excellent point!
This kind of thing bothers me. Once, in sacrament meeting, our Bishop made a Young Man say the prayer TEN TIMES. I was ready to stand up and walk out. At some point, you just accept the kid's attempt and move on for the good of the congregation and the experience.
That poor kid. Not trying to be judgmental, but honestly, what kind of a bishop would do that?
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~Rudyard Kipling ~

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 6660
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by SilentDawning » 28 May 2015, 18:10

I won't answer that last question, as much as I'm tempted to :)
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 3547
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Taking the Sacrament with Your Right Hand

Post by nibbler » 29 May 2015, 05:22

A bishop that believes the words have to be spoken exactly as written otherwise the ordinance doesn't count. The bishop is probably more concerned with the congregation being able to participate in a legitimate sacrament than he is about the feelings of the kid trying to bless the sacrament. It really hinges on the faith of the bishop and I'm guessing many members are very letter of the law when it comes to the sacrament prayer.

It's a tough spot to be in. If the bishop were to let it slide he might have to face complaints from people in the congregation afterwards. I know I've certainly heard times where the prayer wasn't said correctly but it made it past the bishop. I wonder if someone that had the attitude of complaining noticed as well?
Sometimes, the thing you've been looking for your whole life is right there beside you all along.
-Peter Quill

Post Reply