There's a storm coming...

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
Curt Sunshine
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Re: There's a storm coming...

Post by Curt Sunshine » 01 Aug 2009, 11:55

Thank you, george, for the way you responded. I deeply appreciate that.

Tom, I try very hard to not moderate - very hard. I will try even harder in the future - but I can't let a statement that calls us racists stand. I just can't.

All. as someone who has worked long and hard at reaching out to the black communities around me, I understand completely that the Church as an institution has just about zero "social capital" on race relation issues. If there has been a single failure of epic proportion in Church history in my mind, that is it. I personally don't believe the priesthood ban was what God "wanted" in His heart, and I don't think it was directed by Him, and I don't think it was "inspired". I think it was inevitable and a remnant of the Apostasy. Period.

I reacted as I reacted AFTER thinking about whether to react that way. It was NOT a strictly emotional decision. I felt it needed to be said for one reason:

We simply can't make sweeping statements like that and be productive. If it had been left unchallenged, it would have stood for readers to assume as true. We have thousands who read what we write, and I felt I had to make it crystal clear how I FELT when I read that statement for all of those who read but don't comment. That comes with the moderator / admin hat I wear.

Back to what I said at the beginning of this comment:

Thank you, george, for how you responsed. I DEEPLY appreciate it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Re: There's a storm coming...

Post by George » 01 Aug 2009, 12:35

Thank you Ray for showing a willingness to point out/discuss. There certainly are racists in the Church. I find an undercurrent of 'snugness' toward several ethnic cultures. I'm speechless at times. I say this as a citizen of the Muscogee Creek nation, on the board of our California organization. I am a novice here at STAYLDS. I should never have assumed that folks here would not care to rehear the plea of Mr. King in one of our worst moments in Los Angeles history. Rodney King has gotten into other difficulties, but at the moment it was needed, he rose to remind us of our kinship, one with another. As a member of a tribe who were nearly destroyed (the Natchez), but who found safety and adoption by neighboring Muscogee Creeks, I have tender feelings toward all peoples.

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Brian Johnston
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Re: There's a storm coming...

Post by Brian Johnston » 01 Aug 2009, 15:05


I am locking this thread. It is going nowhere except to make drama on the site and talk about it.

According to Google, there are 73,500,000 other sites on the internet about "social justice organizations." :?
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

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Re: There's a storm coming...

Post by swimordie » 01 Aug 2009, 15:06

I think George's comment was handled appropriately. I had to sleep on it so I didn't say something much worse than what Ray said. But it did need to be addressed and refuted appropriate to the level of the "offense". So, thank you all for your continued civility. Thank you George, for the apology. Thank you Ray for the rebuttal and acceptance. And thank you Tom for the steadiness. This is probably the way it should work in an ideal forum world. I know it works beautifully for me. 8-)
Perfectionism hasn't served me. I think I am done with it. -Poppyseed