What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

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stan
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by stan » 31 Dec 2014, 11:56

LookingHard wrote:
nibbler wrote:
LookingHard wrote:If I have to select a integer response, then #2 is the closest.
If you're only entertaining integers I guess you'd probably be even less likely to go with √-4 ;)
Come on -be rational or at least real! :)
Get thee to a math geeks' punnery :lolno:

dash1730
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by dash1730 » 01 Jan 2015, 09:23

What are your beliefs about the First Vision?
I doubt there will ever be a definitive, verifiable, objective answer to the reality of the First Vision. There will always be room for doubt, as there is room for faith. Anything beyond that is speculation.

So for my mortal experience, I ask what are the relative benefits of belief and disbelief?

Benefits of Disbelief:
1 free day every week
A 10+% reduction in expenses
additional responsibilities absolved
Nobody telling me how to lead my life.
Can free myself from concern about polygamy, bigotry, corporatism, and dogmatism

Benefits of Belief
Fostering a healthy lifestyle, and above average longevity
Opportunity to regularly meet with good people who try to help others
Encouragement to get a secular education
Belong to a Church who's divorce rate among temple marriages are among the lowest of any group
Strong sense of moral and ethical values that have kept me out of a peck of troubles
A cosmology that gives me hope that and meaning to life, a plausible sounding explanation for the pain and suffering of mortality
(see the God Who Weeps)

I'm amazed the Church has survived the trauma of tar & feathering, numerous legal and mortal attacks on JS, his assassination, rape and
pillage, federal troupes marching on SLC, church property confiscated by the federal government in an attempt to bankrupt the Church
and force it to change its doctrine and practice of polygamy, Abraham Smoot denied a seat in the Senate for 6 years, the Great
Depression, a doctrinal about-face on the Blacks and the Priesthood. Current doctrine is evolving on gays, and the Church is doing a
remarkable job of unearthing its history (yet not recognized by the Correlation Committee).

Now the Church has 15 Million members with congregations in 160 countries, the only American church that has more members outside
the country than inside. It's one of few churches who have no paid ministry. Compared to other groups its members are more knowledgeable about the OT & NT, are more charitable, live longer, and have lower divorce rate (as compared to temple marriages).
I may not walk the straight and narrow, but I try to cross it as often as I can.
---J Golden Kimball

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wayfarer
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by wayfarer » 02 Jan 2015, 11:41

2.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
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cwald
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by cwald » 02 Jan 2015, 19:58

3.2
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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wayfarer
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by wayfarer » 02 Jan 2015, 20:27

cwald wrote:3.2
ok...i don't really disagree, but i give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

i guess it also boils down to whether there are "beings" like god, a resurrected jesus, or angels. maybe all visions are hallucinations. certainly MSU applies in a lot of instances.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

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cwald
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by cwald » 02 Jan 2015, 20:37

Sure. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as well. I'm just a little bit jaded right now.

-sigh- The best i can do, with the benefit of doubt, is 2.8
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Curt Sunshine
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 02 Jan 2015, 22:02

certainly MSU applies in a lot of instances.


I've never heard about a connection to Michigan State University. :P
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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wayfarer
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by wayfarer » 03 Jan 2015, 09:05

cwald wrote:Sure. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as well. I'm just a little bit jaded right now.

-sigh- The best i can do, with the benefit of doubt, is 2.8
Hmmm. I take it you won't be attending a full-year course on the teachings of the 14 fundamentals and the guy who spoke them? :lol:
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 03 Jan 2015, 20:12

I think that's a safe bet, wayfarer.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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wayfarer
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Re: What are your beliefs about the First Vision?

Post by wayfarer » 04 Jan 2015, 04:37

i probably won't either...although i was thinking about blogging a flipside version of each lesson...too ambitios though, and a waste of enerhy.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

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