Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by Curt Sunshine » 24 Aug 2014, 13:57

Humanity being wiped out or severely decimated in some cataclysmic event is not hard to imagine - whether it be natural or man-made. I could envision a WWIII that involved nuclear weapons in the hands of extremely evil people - and I have hardcore conservative friends who advocate openly for the use of nuclear and/or biological warfare on ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups (including the slaughter of entire communities that don't fight terrorism openly). I also could envision global climate change and/or a viral epidemic leading to something that would make the black plague look like a historical blip.

Do I think any of that will happen? Probably not in my lifetime, and I wouldn't bet on it - but it certainly is a possibility. Thus, I understand and can't dismiss completely those who believe in an apocalyptic event tied to the Second Coming. The First Rising, if you will, is harder to believe than a Second Coming, so if someone believes the first, I can understand believing the second.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by DarkJedi » 25 Aug 2014, 20:08

Ray DeGraw wrote:Humanity being wiped out or severely decimated in some cataclysmic event is not hard to imagine - whether it be natural or man-made. I could envision a WWIII that involved nuclear weapons in the hands of extremely evil people - and I have hardcore conservative friends who advocate openly for the use of nuclear and/or biological warfare on ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups (including the slaughter of entire communities that don't fight terrorism openly). I also could envision global climate change and/or a viral epidemic leading to something that would make the black plague look like a historical blip.

Do I think any of that will happen? Probably not in my lifetime, and I wouldn't bet on it - but it certainly is a possibility. Thus, I understand and can't dismiss completely those who believe in an apocalyptic event tied to the Second Coming. The First Rising, if you will, is harder to believe than a Second Coming, so if someone believes the first, I can understand believing the second.
And that's why I'm a doomsday prepper! (I'm not actually, although I do have some emergency preparations and I think the show is fun - and funny - to watch.)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Heber13
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by Heber13 » 19 Nov 2015, 11:50

I was just thinking about this topic since the attacks on France, and searched for this thread. Interesting to read through these thoughts on the signs of our times.

The Church teaches:
Many of these signs are being fulfilled. Wickedness is everywhere. Nations are constantly at war. Earthquakes and other calamities are occurring. Many people now suffer from devastating storms, drought, hunger, and diseases. We can be certain that these calamities will become more severe before the Lord comes.
I'm just not sure I see much value in looking at the signs that were predicted by prophets. I don't know what to draw meaning from it?
(See: Signs)

Do any current events make you wonder about the end of days?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by DarkJedi » 19 Nov 2015, 12:03

Heber13 wrote:I was just thinking about this topic since the attacks on France, and searched for this thread. Interesting to read through these thoughts on the signs of our times.

The Church teaches:
Many of these signs are being fulfilled. Wickedness is everywhere. Nations are constantly at war. Earthquakes and other calamities are occurring. Many people now suffer from devastating storms, drought, hunger, and diseases. We can be certain that these calamities will become more severe before the Lord comes.
I'm just not sure I see much value in looking at the signs that were predicted by prophets. I don't know what to draw meaning from it?
(See: Signs)

Do any current events make you wonder about the end of days?
No, because most of these things have been happening for 2000 years plus. They sort of remind me how a "psychic" knows things about people - it's mostly about confirmation bias.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by Rob4Hope » 19 Nov 2015, 12:15

I have a prediction that the 2nd coming will not be for at least 10 more years.

You see, that would be too easy: I Have DEBTS to pay, and if Christ came, my creditors wouldn't get their last ounce of blood, sweat and tears out of me. Oh no......can't be that soon,...because it might prevent the bill collectors from chasing me down (they would be, after all, stubble or something like that [i hope!]).

I got enough problems to deal with now than freaking out about another chicken little prediction.

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nibbler
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by nibbler » 19 Nov 2015, 12:44

In that list I'm not seeing anything new. E.g. the occurrence of some new, never before seen event in human history. I suppose the argument revolves around these events occurring more frequently and/or being more severe. On that front it's hard to tell.

We might feel like these events are few and far between until something affects us directly, then it's happening all the time. The world is also much smaller than it once was. What happens in France no longer stays in France, it's in our living room and affects us.

If two 500 year floods happen within 20 years of each other what does it mean? That we were wrong about it being a 500 year flood? That we won the disaster lottery? Do we focus on those occurrences and forget about the places where 500 year floods haven't happened for a whole millennia? It's easier to miss events that don't happen.

Saying natural disasters are going to happen is a pretty low risk prophecy. The sun will rise in the east, Vegemite will taste bad, SNL will get progressively worse with each passing season, these are the signs of my coming. :angel:

I tend not to worry about the end days. Everyone will have a last day whether it's the result of Jesus coming to lay the smack down or whether we finally kick the bucket due to old age. If an earthquake should interrupt my wait for either it's not like holding off on drinking that cup of coffee for a few more days would have prevented the quake.

I'm more concerned with the love of many waxing cold. I've seen it up close and personal, I've succumbed to it, the temptation is real. That's a sign where I hopefully could change and make some difference.
It’s strange. When I couldn’t find the drop and the plague came, you seemed so far away I would not ever be able to find you again. But I know now that you were here all along, and that nothing, not the Black Death nor seven hundred years, nor death nor things to come nor any other creature could ever separate me from your caring and concern. It was with me every minute.
― Connie Willis , Doomsday Book

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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by mom3 » 19 Nov 2015, 12:56

Heber asked
Do any current events make you wonder about the end of days?
No. I used to get all wound around the axle about it, but I've lived through too much to believe it anymore. Presently I have taken to calmly dismissing the conversation when it comes up. I stick to conference talks and biblical passages to cool the flames of anxiety.

I get the panic. Paris broke my heart and the rage of the world and how we enact that rage terrifies me, but Rome was no friendlier, or any other conqueror for that matter. At this time I side with Nibbler -
I'm more concerned with the love of many waxing cold. I've seen it up close and personal, I've succumbed to it, the temptation is real. That's a sign where I hopefully could change and make some difference.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by SilentDawning » 19 Nov 2015, 13:08

I personally question whether there will be a second coming. Life is so unfair in terms of revealing the truth in ways that are undeniable, and arguments about why "faith" is necessary no longer hold water for me. Faith has been used in so many ways to lead well-meaning people astray. I have often wondered if believing in the Second Coming is like believing in the Easter Bunny.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Joni
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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by Joni » 07 Dec 2015, 10:51

I think there's an element of religious smugness to our obsession with signs of the times. We all like the idea that we will be one of the chosen few on the deck of the ark as the floodwaters rush in.

The doomsday talk has actually calmed way down since I was a youth in the nineties, though. I think when the world didn't end with Y2K we all decided to worry a little less.

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Re: Signs of the Times- 2nd Coming

Post by LookingHard » 07 Dec 2015, 12:17

Joni wrote:I think there's an element of religious smugness to our obsession with signs of the times. We all like the idea that we will be one of the chosen few on the deck of the ark as the floodwaters rush in.

The doomsday talk has actually calmed way down since I was a youth in the nineties, though. I think when the world didn't end with Y2K we all decided to worry a little less.
Yep. We had another 1oo years until we started panicking again. But then again, some are already doing it.

I just don't want to be a computer programmer in the year 9999 and the Y10K panic that will be going on! :-)

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