As man is God once was

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jeriboy
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by jeriboy » 01 Aug 2009, 19:12

Tom Haws said....Sure, any church would do. But I'm LDS.
Any church would not do.
Most mormons with some knowledge of what we believe, if they had to attend church in some bible belt area, say for six months, would on the spiritual level, starve to death.
Milk and water is OK for those who have nothing more than milk and water. But thank God for the restoration. For those who think they might not have a testimony. Attend church at some bible belt chapel, I would just about bet you would want to get out of kindergarten fairly quick, and get back to the greater light and knowledge.

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HiJolly
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by HiJolly » 01 Aug 2009, 21:37

jeriboy wrote:Tom Haws said....Sure, any church would do. But I'm LDS.

Any church would not do.
Most mormons with some knowledge of what we believe, if they had to attend church in some bible belt area, say for six months, would on the spiritual level, starve to death.
Milk and water is OK for those who have nothing more than milk and water. But thank God for the restoration. For those who think they might not have a testimony. Attend church at some bible belt chapel, I would just about bet you would want to get out of kindergarten fairly quick, and get back to the greater light and knowledge.
jeriboy,

I disagree, although I admit I find fulfillment in the LDS Church, personally. I attend other church's services from time to time. I can 'feel' their spirit, and only a handful of times was it less than what a Christian would hope for. Usually, I feel the Spirit of God present there. With that, nothing is lacking, even if 'meat' is not apparent.

This happened when I took my 15 year-old (a couple of years ago) daughter to the local Methodist worship service. We loved it. We recited the Lord's Prayer with them, and sang with them. I even managed a passable tenor on the memorized hymn (no books! Yikes!).

As we left to go to our own Church meetings, we discussed feeling the Spirit present. She was amazed that I knew so much from their liturgy. I was a proud dad--- proud of her, proud of myself. What a teaching moment!

Earlier this year I was in the Roman Catholic cathedral for a few days. The last time I had attended (back in the 80's) it did not feel good at all to my spirit. This time, it was wonderful. I really enjoyed the beautiful edifice to God's glory. It was very special.

HiJolly
Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations.
-- The Stoic Epictetus

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by hawkgrrrl » 01 Aug 2009, 23:46

I have to second what Hi Jolly said. I made an analogy elsewhere that going to church is like brown-bagging it. You eat what you bring with you. If you bring milk, you eat milk. If you bring meat, you eat meat. Just because they only serve milk, doesn't mean that you can't discern more through the spirit. I believe very strongly that all churches provide enlightenment, and sometimes the contrast is the most illuminating. At Christmas time, I attended an Anglican Evensong service at Westminster Abbey, and it was very uplifting because it was such a contrast, so my senses were heightened and I was more aware of what was taking place. Had this type of service been my weekly staple, I do not doubt that I would have found it tedious, obscure, repetitive, and pageantry without practicality. But as a special occasion, it really added to the spirit of the season, and I will not forget that experience, surrounded by the graves of the great men and women of England. The church isn't synonymous with the gospel. Sometimes it hits, and sometimes it misses. That's life.

jeriboy
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by jeriboy » 02 Aug 2009, 09:17

Tom Haws wrote.....I am a spark of God. In me, God is a man. To God I will return. Thus the Father will be again glorified. As I now am, God now is. As God now is, I now am. Division is illusion, and all is one.


I prefer the simple " As man now is God once was, as God now is man may become." Why complicate things, simplify, simplify, simplify.

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Tom Haws
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by Tom Haws » 02 Aug 2009, 23:32

HiJolly wrote:Earlier this year I was in the Roman Catholic cathedral for a few days. The last time I had attended (back in the 80's) it did not feel good at all to my spirit. This time, it was wonderful. I really enjoyed the beautiful edifice to God's glory. It was very special.
Thanks for sharing. I love your Methodist story. But about that Catholic story, I'm afraid you are mistaken, HiJolly. That wasn't your experience. That was mine. You aren't allowed to tell my stories as though they happened to you. :lol: Anyway, I thought I might go in and do confession. The priest said he couldn't hear my confession because I wasn't a catholic. Bummer.

jeriboy. There is something to be said for the beauty and compactness of the LDS couplet. I love it!
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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bridget_night
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by bridget_night » 17 Aug 2009, 19:10

The reason this couplet is so meaningful to me is that praying to a God that I knew had gone through earthly sufferings and could understand my trials and pain, made me feel that He really understood and cared. A number of times I have experienced spiritual arms surrounding me with hugs and warmth with powerful thoughts that He understood my deep pain, and was weeping with me. I could never pray to the God that had no 'body parts, and passions and just filled the air." I relate to God through his Son Jesus Christ. When I saw "Passion of the Christ' it was almost too much to bear, but it really made me realize how much God must love us. Bridget

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mormonheretic
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by mormonheretic » 22 Aug 2009, 22:03

I wish I had come across this post sooner. It is a favorite of mine. I did a couple of blog posts about it last year. I guess one of the most interesting things I learned was the concept in the Greek Orthodox Church of Theosis. It sounds quite similar to exaltation. An ancient Christian leader names Ireneaus has a famous quote:
"the Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”
For further info, go to http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/07/30 ... ification/

I also heard a Sunstone presentation last year by Hugo Olaiz. According to Olaiz, it seems that most of the prophets embrace “as God now is, man may be”, but are much more uncomfortable with the “As man now is, God once was” part. He said Pres Hinckley only quoted the latter part of the quote in the 2nd half of the couplet in 1994, and that it seems that previous prophets also had problems with the 1st half.

There's more details at http://www.mormonheretic.org/2008/08/08 ... -sunstone/

Anyway, it seems the Eastern Orthodox Church also embraces the idea of becoming a part of god, though they aren't really comfortable saying the God was once like us. Perhaps Lorenzo Snow was only half right?

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HiJolly
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by HiJolly » 24 Aug 2009, 06:07

mormonheretic wrote:I also heard a Sunstone presentation last year by Hugo Olaiz. According to Olaiz, it seems that most of the prophets embrace “as God now is, man may be”, but are much more uncomfortable with the “As man now is, God once was” part. He said Pres Hinckley only quoted the latter part of the quote in the 2nd half of the couplet in 1994, and that it seems that previous prophets also had problems with the 1st half.
... Perhaps Lorenzo Snow was only half right?
I think the reason the 1st half is not comfortable for us is that there is not really any scriptural support for it. There are a lot of scriptures that support the idea of us becoming as God is; of inheriting all that He has; Not so much for Him being as we are, unless you bring in the mortal Christ, which is debatable anyway.

HiJolly
Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations.
-- The Stoic Epictetus

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Tom Haws
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by Tom Haws » 24 Aug 2009, 09:30

Right. We aren't perhaps uncomfortable with it, but it's not scriptural in the Western (Judeo/Christian) tradition.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
Higley and Guadalupe
Gilbert, Arizona
----
Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
"There are no academic issues. Everything is emotional to somebody." Ray Degraw at www.StayLDS.com

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Heber13
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Re: As man is God once was

Post by Heber13 » 25 Aug 2009, 07:38

Could it also be that it sends the wrong message, or the wrong teaching?

In my mind, I think that as Christ was on the earth, Elohim once was...perfect, and all the Christ did, the Father did.

I am inferior to Christ...not perfect, and not as divinely gifted or spiritually strong, nor capable of being a savior to the world. Christ was not like man is (with imperfections). Neither was the Father, IMO.

If we make it seem like Heavenly Father was once like Heber13...I don't think that is correct, nor does that teach the correct doctrine to me of how dependent I am upon His mercy, how I am less than the dust of the earth, and am an "unprofitable" servant. Unlike The Father, and the Son.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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