Ilovechrist77 wrote:I know that Stephen R. Robinson in his book Following Christ didn't like the term unconditional love because it wasn't a scriptural term and it sounded like God would give us exaltation when haven't repented. My faith crisis came about with studying church history in depth, but in 2001-2003 I was experiencing moral scrupulosity, a part of OCD. Maybe I was experiencing a faith crisis then and didn't realize it. I believe God, Jesus Christ, Heavenly Mother, the Holy Ghost love us more than we can comprehend. His blessings and the things he does for us can be incredibly unpredictable. Even God allowing one of Joseph Smith's non-member family member exaltation was unpredictable. So was Adam and Eve partaking of the forbidden fruit.
I really disliked the book "Following Christ." My review of it is found here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2675&p=32845&hilit=robinson#p32845
For me it seemed a complete turnaround from the earlier work of "Believing Christ."
Unconditional love is not found in the Bible but "unfailing love" is.
Turn, O LORD, and deliver me; save me because of your unfailing love.
But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.
For the king trusts in the LORD; through the unfailing love of the Most High he will not be shaken.
Let your face shine on your servant; save me in your unfailing love.
May your unfailing love rest upon us, O LORD, even as we put our hope in you.
How priceless is your unfailing love! Both high and low among men find refuge in the shadow of your wings.
Rise up and help us; redeem us because of your unfailing love.
Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love; according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
O Israel, put your hope in the LORD, for with the LORD is unfailing love and with him is full redemption.
Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed," says the LORD, who has compassion on you.
Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love.
What does the "unfailing" descriptor mean? I believe that it means that God will NEVER give up on me - that there are NO "lost causes" among God's children.
This doesn't mean that I believe that I will be forced into a heaven that I am unprepared for nor that I should get something for nothing. For me, it means that I believe that there will be sufficient opportunity to correct my errors in an environment of understanding, patience, mercy, and love. Doesn't that fit the definition of repentance? It just realligns our ideas of limitations, deadlines, stipulations, and provisos. I believe in the power of unexpected, undeserved, and unwavering love to break down our defenses and resistance until we let it in. Maybe just a drop at first but then slowly but surely I believe it will fill the heart and soul of all but the hardest of stone hearts.
Not all scriptures support my premise. To some a performance based gospel just makes more sense. But I believe that there are also some in the LDS church that are withering spiritually for lack of feeling God's love reaching towards them. I feel that God’s “unfailing love” is under-represented in our theology and discourse. For me, love changes everything.
The theology of conditional based on check marks of approval or performance isn't new and is as old as history. It's just what the Jewish people thought of love and transferred such understanding to the image of god. So I am not surprised to see its predominance there. But then it can be used as a back board to justify stoning or pre approved check mark
Love that authoritarian personalities love to embody. It forgets the basic premise of love and cast it in the light of I obedience. It never bothers to ask the question of "is there a god and if there is what traits would he need to have in order to worship him"? It simply says "is there a god and if so what do I need to do to worship him?" Automatically assuming that because a god is a god we worship him no matter what. Such a system through a personal integrity away because it try's to establish that "it diesnt matter who I am or what I believe it only matters who god is and what he wants me to believe".
Forgetting that their is no worth in living any kind if life either here or eternity with that very notion and completely throwing out all meaning and worth or self worry to all existence with such a notion,
If i took upon this view established well before Hollands talk by authoritarian figures throughout history then I must ask myself why it is important that I do anything at all for such a good when the rewards for doing something
As great as they may seem mean literally nothing if I can not be authentically me I'm here and the after life while trying to pursue worship in that reguard. No amount of promised blessings can overcome the wconolete worthlessness of not being authentically self and serving in that regard. Even the conceit of complete servitude to anyone no matter how great they are negates completely any point to existence.
I'm short to believe in this as pointed out to Hollands talk is to believe that life and existence is worth nothing and has no meaning. Therefore why bother doing anything since nothing of who I am matters or nothing of what makes me and others happy really matters in the end. It is all pointless since life is about becoming someone else for someone else.
That such a life or a god is even worth any effort at all is to make life for many completely pointless and without merit.
Serving a good I choose to worship because he embodies what I want to become is worth something to strive for. But a god such as what the talk abodies is a pointless and fruitless life. I choose to make a god with personality traits I want to strive for and reject such a god or personality traits that are the opposite of what I want to strive for.
It's the way to positive mental and spiritual health, not of viewing myself as a slave of ownership because I was created therefore indepted to. Creation the act of creation dies not create ownership neither obligation.
To love selflessly means to give without expecting anything in return. It diesnt mean rewarding for mistreatment of others but given without expecting anything. I could not worship a god who does any less then the best of his children who have set such an example. Therefore I strive to emulate that which we seek, what do we seek? Will tell us the kind of god we like to worship.