Does anyone know?

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RuthandI
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Does anyone know?

Post by RuthandI » 05 Jul 2009, 19:06

Does anyone know if there is a prophecy that states something along the lines of "In the last days of the church, thousands will fall away" and where it comes from? I know there is a little bit about this in the bible about a general following away from Christianity or maybe it's referring to the great apostacy but is there a specific prophecy in LDS doctrine referring to a falling away from the LDS church? It sure seems to permeate the culture but I can't seem to trace it back to its roots. Thanks! I realize I've never posted here and am now asking for some help but I read your posts all the time! I love reading what you all have to say. Thanks for all your time, thoughts and wisdom!

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just me
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by just me » 05 Jul 2009, 20:02

Welcome!

I'm not sure about those specific words but there are many, many scriptures that say only a few will be faithful in "the last days." Of course anyone can argue what qualifies as "the last days." I assume you are looking for scriptures that all LDS would agree with the interpretation...

There are many parables about the members of Christ's church where some are faithful and the rest are not before his coming.
Wheat & Tares: Matt. 13 and D&C 86
Parable of the 10 virgins: Matt. 25
Olive tree parable: Jacob 5

Matthew 24: 24 seems to alude to all but the very elect being deceived in the last days.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Most of us, sooner or later, find that at critical points in our lives we must strike out on our own to make a path where none exists.~Elaine Pagels

Ultimately, you are the path-the path begins and ends with you.~Stephan Bodian

He who think he knows, doesn’t know: He who knows he doesn’t know, knows.~Sanskrit proverb

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just me
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by just me » 05 Jul 2009, 20:08

OOOOOOooooooOOOOOOOOH! I should add that *I* interpret these scriptures that the wheat & tares (etc) are all together in the church. In other words, seemingly faithful members of the church could be wheat or tares. People judged as heretics and apostates may be wheat or tares.
Am I making sense??? These parables are speaking of the members of the church, not those who have left it (necessarily). It could be the church as a whole who have fallen away from Christ's teachings.

It's all in how you interpret the scrips.


Here is another one about the gentiles (includes us) falling away from the fulness of the gospel (I know that is a smidge different than you are looking for):

3 Nephi 16:10
And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and cmurders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
Most of us, sooner or later, find that at critical points in our lives we must strike out on our own to make a path where none exists.~Elaine Pagels

Ultimately, you are the path-the path begins and ends with you.~Stephan Bodian

He who think he knows, doesn’t know: He who knows he doesn’t know, knows.~Sanskrit proverb

RuthandI
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by RuthandI » 05 Jul 2009, 20:49

Just me-
Thanks for this reply. I love what you said about wheat and tares BOTH being within the church. I've never thought of it this way. I really like this interpretation;) When reading the scripture from Nephi it felt very familiar to me...all things that you could find within the church! Definitely something to think about. Thanks for your quick response.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Jul 2009, 05:24

RuthandI, no time but:

The final pruning mentioned in Jacob 5 (the Allegory of the Olive Tree) is of the Church, not the world. Also, not that it's scripture by any stretch, but my Patriarchal Blessing mentions that I live in a time when even many of the elect will be deceived and fall - and I think that's not atypical of how lots of members felt then and feel now.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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trill
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by trill » 06 Jul 2009, 08:17

good to see you over this way, RuthandI :)
"...I valued what was good... but I believed in the existence of other and more vivid kinds of goodness, and what I believed in I wished to behold." -Charlotte Brontë, Jane Eyre

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Heber13
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by Heber13 » 06 Jul 2009, 11:35

I think there are several references to the struggle that will continue to become more intense as it gets closer to the second coming. I don't know of any specifically stating thousands will fall away, but unlike a Great Apostasy where the authority is taken from the earth, personal and individual apostasy is warned against since the world will be in a state “when peace shall be taken from the earth” (D&C 1:35), when “all things shall be in commotion” and “men’s hearts shall fail them” (D&C 88:91).

I believe it is implied that many will fall away, those whose foundation is not build solidly on Christ, and won't be able to withstand the storms of life. I also think that means that many, while still attending church, may in their hearts be falling away from the truth Christ taught.

So I believe it will be much more a personal thing (like the spirit of the law), rather than a number you can find in statistics of church membership.

But I don't believe the authority of the church will ever be lost again.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

jeriboy
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by jeriboy » 01 Aug 2009, 20:06

Don't know for sure, but the way things have been going lately I have been wondering if the last days might have showed up about a year and a half or more ago. I'll reread a few things to remind myself of what's been said on the subject and prehaps find a few newer good LDS books on the subject. Any suggestions?
Question: I have been trying to find this reference, who said it. " The city man can work out his salvation much quicker than can the man who lives in the country." It may not be a perfect quote but it puts the idea accross.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 01 Aug 2009, 20:23

I personally have no desire to figure out specifics about timing. I just don't care. I think that's the most healthy way to live, so that's what I do.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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HiJolly
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Re: Does anyone know?

Post by HiJolly » 01 Aug 2009, 21:42

jeriboy wrote:Question: I have been trying to find this reference, who said it. " The city man can work out his salvation much quicker than can the man who lives in the country." It may not be a perfect quote but it puts the idea accross.
Well, that's a first for me, haven't heard it. And, I don't get the idea at all. ???


HiJolly
Men are not moved by events but by their interpretations.
-- The Stoic Epictetus

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