The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

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On Own Now
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by On Own Now » 09 Feb 2014, 09:20

nibbler wrote:
Harmony wrote:The wording in the Administering of the Church is "The Church does not normally encourage cremation. The family of the deceased must decide whether the body should be cremated, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. In some countries, the law requires cremation."

It seems less stringent than what I first believed the church's policy was. I'm glad it is a family decision.
I guess I find it odd that the church feels like they get a say in the matter at all, but that's me. Seriously, why would they need to be encouraging people toward any decision regarding burial?
nibbler, I read the quote in the exact opposite way as you. I believe the statement quoted by Harmony says that it is the family's choice. It says nothing about encouraging anything. It only says that the "Church does not normally encourage cremation", which I take to be an extremely passive baseline in case a family comes to the Bishop asking advice.

To me, the statement says not to get involved in the decision, except to make sure that the family takes into account local laws. I can't imagine a Bishop who is aware of the above statement making an unsolicited call to the grieving family to let them know his opinion on the matter.

You said it seems odd that the Church would have any say. I don't think the Church is trying to have a say, but simply putting it there for the inevitable question that will arise. You and I both know that in religious families it is likely that they will seek out advice from a Bishop, Priest, Pastor, Imam, Rabbi, Shaman, about procedures for the funeral. Honestly, I look at that statement and nod my head acknowledging that the Church is trying not to be the final say in every detail of life, for which I'm grateful.
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“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” ― Carl Jung
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"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." ― Romans 14:13
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by Curt Sunshine » 09 Feb 2014, 09:40

Thanks for the quote. It's a good example of how we (I, in this case) can remember something differently than it actually is.

It's ironic that I am the one in this case who made more of something than it actually was, since I'm constantly preaching the need to avoid doing that. There's a good lesson in there for me.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by SamBee » 09 Feb 2014, 10:29

There's another reason: many ancient peoples of the Middle East practised cremation and the Hebrews wished to distinguish themselves from that along with child sacrifice and temple prostitutes.

Myself I want a tower of silence or sky burial.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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nibbler
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by nibbler » 09 Feb 2014, 11:06

I see your point OON, I just tend to disagree. The chapter heading "21.3.2 Cremation" is immediately followed by "the church does not normally encourage [it]." I'm thinking about cremation, I'll look it up. Oh, it's not encouraged.

Yes, it does explicit say it is the choice of the family but only after the suggestion that the church doesn't encourage it. I don't encourage you walk down that street at night... but hey, it's your choice. I realize language is a subjective art, people are going to read their bias into things. That's the bias I read into it. I guess it's for the insane people like me that the church has an army of lawyers combing over everything for a decade before it can be released in the wild. ;)

To me there's a big difference between these two statements:
The Church does not normally encourage cremation. The family of the deceased must decide whether the body should be cremated, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. In some countries, the law requires cremation.
The family of the deceased must decide whether the body should be cremated, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. In some countries, the law requires cremation.
http://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/08/i-hav ... n?lang=eng
Church leaders have counseled that only in unusual circumstances or where required by law should cremation take place. - General Handbook of Instructions, March 1989, 1–5.
An ancient handbook, one from the time that the article was written, but it's interesting to see how it's been reworded over time. I'm sure flavors of that are still alive in the collective conscious of older leaders.

The link also has interesting reasons for why there was counsel to not cremate the deceased, so it's worth checking out if just for that.

--------------------

Switching gears. I almost created a tread on this but decided it wasn't worth it. This thread seems appropriate to piggy back on. For the endowed members here... would you want to be buried in you temple clothing?
The wound is the place where the light enters you.
— Rumi

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by hawkgrrrl » 09 Feb 2014, 13:46

It's not like decay is lovely either. I think being embalmed is what we should be against. When we are dead it's time to let it go. We want to look alive but we are dead.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by Curt Sunshine » 09 Feb 2014, 14:02

Yeah, the embalming is what gets me - and I will be buried in my temple clothing, simply as a recognition of the tradition and the wishes of my family. I think it's a lovely tradition for those who believe, even though I don't attach any literal meaning to it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by SamBee » 09 Feb 2014, 14:43

I can't see anyone putting me in them. I don't own any, and I don't know who would put me in some.

Tower of silence for me then.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Roy
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by Roy » 09 Feb 2014, 15:26

I have heard individuals reason against organ donation for the same reasons that are usually given against cremation, tattoos, or vasectamies - that it is disrespectful to our bodies.

I wouls like to be buried in my temple clothing - seems like a nice tradition.
Curtis wrote:I think it's a lovely tradition for those who believe, even though I don't attach any literal meaning to it.
Is there a literal interpretation to it? I had never heard of any supposed advantages to being buried in them.

I suppose the other option would be to go naked. :oops: I came with nothin' and I might leave with nothin'! ;)
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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Ann
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by Ann » 09 Feb 2014, 16:33

hawkgrrrl wrote:
I think being embalmed is what we should be against.
If my body can't be reasonably handled without embalming, I'm leaving instructions to cremate! I don't think my family will care too much either way, and I really don't want to be embalmed.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

Roadrunner
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Re: The Role of Sharks in the Resurrection

Post by Roadrunner » 09 Feb 2014, 16:34

Curtis, my mother in law once told me that to be resurrected all Jesus needed was a single cell with intact DNA. She was taking an institute class in SLC from a famous LDS author. She was entranced with everything this teacher said. I - on the other hand was surprised that Jesus would be so limited to need a cell. I also felt sorry for all those people who died being completely incinerated. I was amazed at the intimate relationship he had with the Lord, how else could he know that! :roll:

Sambee - thanks for enlightening me that cremation isn't green. I had for some reason assumed it was more environmentally friendly than typical burials.

I want to be buried in a coffin that looks like the batmobile.

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