Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
swimordie
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Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by swimordie » 08 Jul 2009, 13:00

Ray Degraw wrote:The key is the conscious identification and pursuit of the end result - the "becoming" something different than one's natural (wo)man. The religious terminology is to "seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness" - but when you translate "the kingdom of God" into secular terms of serving and helping others, it is accessible to all.
Wow! Beautiful sentiment!

In this context, what is the role of organized religion? Just another vehicle or something more?
Perfectionism hasn't served me. I think I am done with it. -Poppyseed

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Jul 2009, 17:21

what is the role of organized religion?
Ideally, to help those who would not identify the path find it and to build the kingdom of God ("Zion" as a united, caring, familial community) on earth. Too often, to self-prepetuate regardless of any collective character-altering path.

I would add that one of the reasons I love Mormon cosmology is the sheer splendor of the path's ultimate objective.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

swimordie
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Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by swimordie » 08 Jul 2009, 18:39

Ray Degraw wrote:I love Mormon cosmology is the sheer splendor of the path's ultimate objective.
Interesting that you would cite this. One of the ideas that has become so important to me on my own "personal" journey is the sense of the importance of THIS life, our mortal existence. Not to discount what you said above, but my experience in the church (and especially my parents) has been the overwhelming sense of how much MORE important the eternities are relative to mortal life. I get the whole analogy of time and how short our mortal existence is in the scope of eternity, but this actually makes me feel the opposite: this life must be INFINITELY important relative to eternity because one only gets one chance at this and eternity is forever anyway. (My grammar teacher's head just exploded :lol: )

I'm rambling on a tangent which is in total agreement with what you've already said so... what Ray said. ;)
Perfectionism hasn't served me. I think I am done with it. -Poppyseed

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jmb275
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Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by jmb275 » 08 Jul 2009, 22:01

@swimordie
No, I think those are great thoughts. There is a tendency in Mormonism (at least I think so) to be constantly worrying about being obedient to obtain Exaltation, such that we miss the beauty of this life. We are a people very concerned with our soteriology.

@Ray
Great response.
I am like a huge, rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors, suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women--all hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there.
- Joseph Smith, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 304)

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by Curt Sunshine » 09 Jul 2009, 05:39

I think devaluing motality is a natural, nearly universal (wo)man thing - and I think Mormons who do so are on a very shaky foundation given the BofM statements about the importance of this life and the NT's near obsession with becoming godly and judgment based on mortal works.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Heber13
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Location: In the Middle

Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by Heber13 » 12 Jul 2009, 10:08

jmb275 wrote:There is a tendency in Mormonism (at least I think so) to be constantly worrying about being obedient to obtain Exaltation, such that we miss the beauty of this life.
Good observation JMB, I think I fell into that...not all at once, but slowly over time as I continued to try to progress and help my family to progress. I realized how much further I need to go from where I want to be, and then it got me very impatient with small little errors I was making, and pressure to be a better home teacher, better scripture scholar, better (on and on). When that turned to a negative image of myself, I realized I had gone too far.

Taking a break to step back, and enjoy sunrises and nature and some beauties of this world, beauties of the here and now and mortality and the wonderful experience I am having now, then I could return to the LDS community and have more patience and more tolerance of new ideas without so much fear of the next life and if I'm "making the cut".

The beauty of the gospel is that the quest for perfection is never ending. You don't just get baptized and "you're saved" - it is an ongoing process to endure to the end by increasing knowledge and experience and live the Christ-like way...which provides the experience in mortality that is such a blessing. Trying to figure out the meaning of all the symbolism and requirements is the epiphany for me.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

jeriboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2009, 14:20

Re: Ask, Seek and Find Epiphany

Post by jeriboy » 05 Aug 2009, 09:06

All of this post was a good read.

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