When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

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Jazernorth
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by Jazernorth » 16 Dec 2013, 22:27

cwald wrote:Please show me anywhere in DC 89 where it prohibits beer, tea, coffee or pot.
It's right there ... in the D&C ... right there ... no, not there ... over there....

Just Kidding - I've never seen it.

The Temple question says "Do you follow the Words of Wisdom?", right? Isn't that what it says? I follow the D&C 89 Words of Widsom.... To cwalds point ....
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nibbler
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by nibbler » 17 Dec 2013, 09:32

I could be wrong, but I don't see a policy change coming, the WoW is currently a clear line in the sand. I'll take the pro WoW side of the argument.

With respect to alcohol, the WoW is a hedge against dependance on a substance. There's no worry over what constitutes social or responsible drinking simply because there's no drinking at all. I've heard "adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints" interpreted to mean that we don't have to worry whether or not we would have the genetics or predisposition to be entrapped by alcoholism because never taking that first drink means we'll never run the risk.

It's easier to enforce as a policy as well. Do you drink alcohol: A) Yes. b) No. No need to determine what threshold pushes one over into the winebibber category. No justifications to be made by the alcoholic that doesn't want to admit to themselves that they have a problem. It's cut and dry, yes or no, black or white, etc.

Another reason I don't see the policy changing, and it was touched upon in this thread. The WoW is a very visible thing that distinguishes this church from most others. Take that away and what do you have? Well, you still have a bunch of other unique things but none are nearly as visible as the WoW. A policy change would place the WoW candle under the bushel.

And my final reason for the policy never changing... a shift in policy might make the ward socials too fun. Ok, that was in poor taste. I know people that have found the gospel because they found a group of people that could have fun without alcohol. I have to confess that one of the aspects of the church that I really liked was that it was a community of teetotalers. At that point in my life I had already made up my mind that I wasn't going to drink alcohol... and here was a church of like-minded individuals.

I have also seen how the WoW has been used as a tool to judge members and even non-members. That aspect needs to go away and it would be nice to have a shift in policy to get us there.

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Reflexzero
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by Reflexzero » 17 Dec 2013, 11:15

Well I haven't seen any LDS farmers treating their cattle with tobacco leaves, or teaching their steers to smoke, but, whatever WOW.

Featherina

Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by Featherina » 17 Dec 2013, 17:07

cwald wrote:Also...most adults do drink alcohol. And they are responsible, law abiding citizens, parents, spouses.
Sorry, Cwald, but that seems a bit like an oxy-moron, don't you think?
Being response-able - is the ability to respond appropriately.
When one is intoxicated with alcohol, according to police, one's ability to respond is impaired, which is why it is against the law to drink and drive.
There are many other potentially life-changing decisions that must be made when being responsible for children, which is why I never drink alcohol while my children are in my care.

Also, how do you know "most adults" of the about 7 billion people on this earth drink alcohol?
And... how do you measure and know that they are all responsible, law abiding citizens, parents and spouses during the time they drink alcohol?

Moreover, my point was that decisions should be made based on what makes sense as far as what is GOoD, rather than any other person's "doctrinal" writings - whether it be to comply with such writings or to rebel against them.
Last edited by Featherina on 17 Dec 2013, 17:14, edited 1 time in total.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 17 Dec 2013, 17:13

There is a difference between "drinking alcohol" and "being intoxicated". Even D&C 89 says the standard is "adapted to the weak".

I have enough obsessive tendencies within myself and my extended family that I'm not going to drink a drop, but I have many, many friends who drink responsibly.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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Featherina

Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by Featherina » 17 Dec 2013, 17:16

Ray Degraw wrote:There is a difference between "drinking alcohol" and "being intoxicated". Even D&C 89 says the standard is "adapted to the weak".
Maybe that advice would've been good for my friend to tell the police officer who booked him for drinking and driving - after all he wasn't intoxicated - only had a few drinks. ;)

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cwald
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by cwald » 17 Dec 2013, 18:34

Featherina wrote:
cwald wrote:Also...most adults do drink alcohol. And they are responsible, law abiding citizens, parents, spouses.
Sorry, Cwald, but that seems a bit like an oxy-moron, don't you think?
Being response-able - is the ability to respond appropriately.
When one is intoxicated with alcohol, according to police, one's ability to respond is impaired, which is why it is against the law to drink and drive.
There are many other potentially life-changing decisions that must be made when being responsible for children, which is why I never drink alcohol while my children are in my care.

Also, how do you know "most adults" of the about 7 billion people on this earth drink alcohol?
And... how do you measure and know that they are all responsible, law abiding citizens, parents and spouses during the time they drink alcohol?

Moreover, my point was that decisions should be made based on what makes sense as far as what is GOoD, rather than any other person's "doctrinal" writings - whether it be to comply with such writings or to rebel against them.
IMO, this is a terribly naive statement, and dangerous...and terribly judgemental. It also contains about a half dozen logical fallacies.

I'll say no more, this is not a debate forum.





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TataniaAvalon
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by TataniaAvalon » 18 Dec 2013, 07:31

I think the whole point of the WoW is to avoid things that can be addictive, which can include prescription drugs, energy drinks and pot. Now when the WoW was written it was more like a guideline than an actual rule and in that time they didn't have as many addictive substances as we do now. I do wish it would go back to being a guideline than an actual rule and I think most people would still follow the letter of the law but for those who didn't it wouldn't make them feel as guilty. Also there are instances where the things "prohibited" in the WoW can be good for some people. For example I have asthma and caffeine in the form of coffee can help asthma so if I drank it for that health reason I think I am following the WoW.

As a side note I had a orthodox (for lack of a better word) TBM roommate once who took everything in D&C 89 literally down to the generalities it said about grains, meats and such. It was interesting living with her.

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Meh Mormon
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Re: When Does Word of Wisdom get disavowed?

Post by Meh Mormon » 18 Dec 2013, 08:45

nibbler wrote:Another reason I don't see the policy changing, and it was touched upon in this thread. The WoW is a very visible thing that distinguishes this church from most others. Take that away and what do you have? Well, you still have a bunch of other unique things but none are nearly as visible as the WoW. A policy change would place the WoW candle under the bushel.
I agree with this. It won't change because it is too embedded within the culture of the church. Even if it did, I doubt that a lot of "TBM'S" would change with it.

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