Race and The Priesthood

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
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mom3
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Race and The Priesthood

Post by mom3 » 06 Dec 2013, 18:00

I had never read this before, but a friend of mine just posted it on her facebook, I thought I'd share it here.

https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the ... d?lang=eng
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

church0333
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by church0333 » 06 Dec 2013, 19:22

I wonder when this was added to the web site. The thing that stood out to me was that there was no revelation that started the practice of denying the priesthood nor does it sound like there was a revelation allowing the priesthood to be given to all. It sounds like it was just impressions or a good feeling but not The Lord speaking through his prophet. The article calls it a revelation but that seems dishonest to me. If women someday get the priesthood, will there be a revelation as we are thought in SS or will it be all the outside pressure forcing the brethren to get some type of impression. I am not trying to sound snippy, but it makes me wonder what revelation really is or if BY decision to not ordain black was considered a revelation at that time. I love the fact that the church has put this up on it web page but it sure brings up more questions for me than it answers.

church0333
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by church0333 » 06 Dec 2013, 19:33

Also where was the revelation telling all those leaders who were making up or going along with the idea that blacks were "less than"? Why didn't Jesus take a few minutes during their weekly meetings to correct this false teaching? I feel discouraged when I think about it too much.

Harmony
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by Harmony » 06 Dec 2013, 19:52

I was living in SLC at the time the ban was lifted. I was so happy. This had been a big problem for me. What thoroughly surprised me was how many people were really upset by the news, and said they would leave the church because of it. I'm not sure if that amounted to a large percentage or not, but it really took me by surprise.

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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Dec 2013, 19:54

I love this. Period.

It's exactly what everyone here has been begging to be said - and there isn't any white-washing, justification, obfuscation or soft-pedaling that I can see - none at all. It's hard to imagine it being said any more clearly or strongly on the Church's website.

It's repentance in every sense of the word. How can that be anything but a great thing?
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by cwald » 06 Dec 2013, 22:07

Ray Degraw wrote:I love this. Period.

It's exactly what everyone here has been begging to be said ....?
Well, not exactly.

There still is no statement of validation, and an apology for the pain caused to those affected, specifically the apostates and heretics who had their lives and families torn apart for having the "moral courage" (-cough- Dallan Oaks -cough-) to speak up for what is right, regardless of what the prophet and 1st presidency were saying over the pulpit.

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  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Dec 2013, 22:28

Then we will have to disagree. I'm ecstatic this has been published.

Fwiw, the following is from Margaret Young, a BYU professor who has been working with Darius Young, the founding president of the Genesis Group. They are the publishers of "No Man Knows My History: The Story of Black Mormons". May I humbly submit that if Margaret Young and Darius Gray are celebrating the statement and calling it "sweet", we ought to be happy about it, at the very least.
May I thank everyone for celebrating this with us? For whatever Darius and I have contributed to EVERYONE'S preparation for this, we are grateful. But we are certainly not the central characters. So many have worked hard and studied hard. I can personally testify to Darius's single-mindedness in all of this, and to his long-suffering and preparation. I am celebrating for him tonight. He will complete 49 years in the LDS church on December 26th. This statement has been long in coming, but is all the sweeter for the wait.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by cwald » 06 Dec 2013, 23:27

Oh, I think it is a big step, and I'm glad they did this...it needs to be put in manuals and GC to actually have ANY affect.

It's just not "exactly" what I expect the church to do to right the wrong. That is all.



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Last edited by Anonymous on 07 Dec 2013, 00:12, edited 1 time in total.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

church0333
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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by church0333 » 06 Dec 2013, 23:28

I agree this is a great step but I feel like there is some spin on this just like the multiple first vision statement. Yes they are addressing the issues but there feels like a certain amount of spin. For example, there have been official statement from the FP in the 1940s about the negros that the current official statement does not mention. If we are going to put it out there than let's do it right.

Cwald, I was thinking the same thing. I just glad that we can be open and discuss all of this. I guess I would like to see that more officially in the church instead of just whispered in the hallways.

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Re: Race and The Priesthood

Post by Curt Sunshine » 06 Dec 2013, 23:56

For example, there have been official statements from the FP in the 1940s about the negros that the current official statement does not mention.


It doesn't have to list everything that has been said in the past, since it lists some of the most common things and then explicitly condemns all racism of the past, regardless of the source, with the obvious and explicit inclusion of all of the racism of past church leaders and statements. Those statement from the FP in the 40's ARE included, along with everything else any church members or leader has said.

Also, it doesn't even try to hint that the ban was the will of God or based on revelation. In fact, the very clear implication is that it was not the product of revelation. This is a very blunt statement saying the LDS Church suffered from racism in the past and now disavows all of it - every single justification and every single racist statement.

Seriously, I like this WAY more than an attempt to list every racist statement. This says it's not important to identify which statements are worthy of repudiation; instead, it says all of the racist ones are, no matter the source.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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