Polygamy question

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HSAB
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Polygamy question

Post by HSAB » 21 Jul 2013, 17:10

I know we've had countless threads on this but can anyone link some good resources for me about who Joseph Smiths wives were?

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On Own Now
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by On Own Now » 21 Jul 2013, 17:36

Sites exist but are not unbiased in my opinion. The definitive source of information is the Compton book "In Sacred Lomeliness".

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by Curt Sunshine » 21 Jul 2013, 19:37

Most sites don't distinguish between the types of relationships that existed, and that's a major weakness. "In Sacred Loneliness" can be difficult for someone who is new to the topic, but it is an excellent treatise, imo.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mackay11
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Polygamy question

Post by mackay11 » 22 Jul 2013, 04:31

'thewivesofjosephsmith.org' has most of them listed. It's created with a slightly less positive spin which (apparently) is a bit selective with the quotes used.

But having said that, it's still a useful quick reference. I don't think the information is inaccurate. Maybe a little selective. I use it a fair amount.

There's also familysearch.org. Joseph's ancestral file lists over 50 wives. It's user generated content through, so probably not entirely reliable!

Ciasiab
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by Ciasiab » 22 Jul 2013, 06:55

Brian Hales also runs a website that has a more apologetic slant:

http://josephsmithspolygamy.com/

http://josephsmithspolygamy.com/JSWives ... ist02.html

Roy
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by Roy » 22 Jul 2013, 09:07

Ray Degraw wrote: "In Sacred Loneliness" can be difficult for someone who is new to the topic, but it is an excellent treatise, imo.
The great part about "In Sacred Lonliness" is that it attempts to paint a picture of who these women where rather than just list the names.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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mackay11
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by mackay11 » 25 Jul 2013, 01:34

Ciasiab wrote:Brian Hales also runs a website that has a more apologetic slant:

http://josephsmithspolygamy.com/

http://josephsmithspolygamy.com/JSWives ... ist02.html
Great resource... but... can someone pay for a day of web-designer time. It's like visiting a website from the 1990s!

johnh
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by johnh » 29 Jul 2013, 09:00

Brian Hales has a new series out on Polygamy....was wondering if anyone has read it. The reviews imply that he claims there was no sex involved.


http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smiths-Pol ... 580&sr=1-1

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mormonheretic
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by mormonheretic » 29 Jul 2013, 09:28

I'm starting with volume 3 because it is shortest, and also because Hales said that it was actually a good place to start. In response to the allegation that sex was not involved, Brian does not claim that. Concerning the polyandrous marriages, Hales claims that it probably only happened in 1 or 2 cases. Hales states that nearly all these polyandrous sealings were not sexual, but he does admit that sex probably was involved in a case or two. He also argues that sex was not involved in the case of 14 year old Mary Rollins Lightner, and sex was much less important than the sealings in many cases. So yes Hales is downplaying that sex happened, but he is not denying that it happened. He is also arguing that he thinks he has identified a child of Joseph with a polygamous wife, though I am sure that there is some question to support his claim. I know of no DNA evidence to support this claim.

Ann
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Re: Polygamy question

Post by Ann » 29 Jul 2013, 14:03

If anyone has listened to DB's mormondiscussion.podbean.com interview with Brian Hales, I'm interested in your reaction. I didn't want to leave a lengthy, or especially critical comment at the site itself.

So, this comment is about the interview, not the books.

My impression of Brian Hales is that he is a good, sincere, intelligent, honest person. He seems entirely without guile. But I am inclined to describe his thinking as "quirky." I put off listening to the podcast because I didn't know what to expect from the author of what seems to be the definitive work on the subject. I was afraid he would be intoning about the will of the Lord. I was frankly relieved after listening. First DBMormon conducts great interviews. Beyond that, I didn't hear anything much new and certainly nothing that adds to the God-commanded-it column. In fact, the whole endeavor comes off more haphazard and ill-conceived than before.

Hales says - in a sort of "near as I can figure" way - that Joseph was anticipating more worthy women than men in the hereafter and they would not have spouses. At the end of the interview, when DB asks, "Does my wife need to worry about polygamy?" Hales says that he doesn't think there's going to be enough extra worthy women. ??? We redid the numbers, and, turns out, we don't need polygamy after all.

I really like him because he doesn't seem to be spinning anything. He's just done the research, followed his nose, reached his conclusions and has his honestly arrived-at opinions. But I can't connect with his logic. He says, "Emma did accept it, she really did." Then after Emily Partridge and Joseph sleep together in the Smith home, "she turned against it." DB called this "waffling" on Emma's part - not a word I would choose. Hales also says as some point that Joseph tried not to lie. That's a mindset I can't wrap my brain around.

He has a very narrow, defined, clinical approach that doesn't seem disdainful of women, but just kind of distant and uncomprehending.

Anyway, if anyone else listens to the interview, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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