The Elementary School Shooting Today

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16728
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 Dec 2012, 16:46

Please read the linked post from Jacob at By Common Consent. It left me in tears and with a lot about which I need to think.

Feel free to copy parts, paste them here and comment on them:

"All Eternity Shakes: Mormonism's Weeping God" (http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2012/12/ ... eping-god/)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16728
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 Dec 2012, 16:50

The highlighting and formatting in the excerpt below is mine:
What, then, of our God?

We read that he weeps over the suffering of his children, that Enoch, who witnesses it, is astonished. After everything he had just seen, and been granted power to do by God, he saw God as the all-powerful sovereign, able to do anything he willed, the God of traditional Judaism and Christianity. But this is troubling for Enoch. Doesn’t God already live in that painless realm of beauty and joy, that very place where we yearn to go and have been promised if we are righteous and law-abiding? When God explains that the heavens weep over suffering due to the sins of humankind he then shows Enoch all of it, all of the wickedness and suffering that God witnesses with ghastly regularity, and now Enoch weeps, and his heart swells wide as eternity, and his bowels yearn and eternity shakes. Enoch experiences, as perhaps no one really had or no one really would in scripture, not Nephi with his vision of the end of his people, not John with his Revelation of the Apocalypse, what it was like to live God’s life, to live and move as he lived and moved, as one who is intensely connected to all the happenings and events and lives of the universe. And oh what joy he did NOT feel from this experience. He weeps bitterly and refuses to be comforted. This could not be it. This could not be all there was for all eternity, worlds without end.

Enoch realizes that the essence of what it would mean become a divine being, to become like God, the heart and core of the the gift of the Good News for humanity, was not to escape to another realm where pain and suffering cannot touch you. It was to develop into a being who would and could endure the present of all moments, in wave after infinite wave of pain, suffering, and wickedness, because this would be, despite the good that humanity would also do and be capable of, the terrible gift of humanity to God.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
cwald
Posts: 3628
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 06:39

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by cwald » 14 Dec 2012, 19:22

I'm still to sickened to even read the news article.



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16728
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 Dec 2012, 19:26

Frankly, cwald, I've avoided reading news articles, as well.

My youngest daughter is 10. Enough said.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
cwald
Posts: 3628
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 06:39

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by cwald » 14 Dec 2012, 20:06

I teach in a K-12 school with 4-day weeks. Glad I was not at work today

All of my kids are gone today on overnighters...wrestling, church youth group (not Lds ), FFA social....anyway...made me for a second, question my faith and trust...in giving kids freedom. I couldn't protect them today...I'm not there.

Of course...we demand and we expect kids will be safe at school. But really, and for the most part we deliver. But these events continue to happen.. We still allow that damn "free agency."

Oh the irony.

I might go read the blog.



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5435
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by SamBee » 15 Dec 2012, 08:40

To be honest, I don't really want to hear about it. I'm sorry for all those involved. Dreadful. Happens too often.

I actually know a few folk who know people who were involved in such a massacre near here once. We have a guy in the neighboring ward whose cousin was murdered by her boyfriend (he got mixed up with black magic etc), and her case was sprawled across the papers here. He's a good lad, but I think you can imagine what his feelings are towards her former boyfriend.

There is one factor that we don't seem to want to address in the west... which is the pressure cooker situation that seems to lead to these killings. In many cases, it's not just a matter of spotting the potential troublemaker, I think it's also a matter of social exclusion of the killer, and even bullying. None of this justifies this kind of behavior, but if we could deal with that kind of thing more effectively we might avoid massacres like this. (Banning guns is only going to solve part of the problem)
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
Bruce in Montana
Posts: 280
Joined: 02 Jun 2009, 16:14

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by Bruce in Montana » 15 Dec 2012, 10:57

So where was our loving God yesterday? Was he a no-show?

What kind of a monster can go into a kindergarden classroom and start shooting crying little kids?

What are we going to do as a society?
Stricter gun laws aren't working (CT has some of the strictest).
Locked doors on schools isn't working. (He broke through the glass)
Identifying problem individuals isn't working. (This creep was an honor student)
Banning guns would never work. (Heroin and meth are banned also)
Blaming guns doesn't work. (That's like blaming silverware for obesity)

I'm at a loss for suggestions. Many have suggested arming teachers. Frighteningly, that actually makes the most sense.

What are these parents supposed to do this morning when they wake up, if they slept, and their little children are gone? Should they pray? Should we pray for them?

It sometimes seems that "faith" has no answers....it just serves to stop the questions.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
-William S.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16728
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Dec 2012, 11:07

PLEASE, everyone, read the actual post I linked.

There is a reason why I linked to it instead of writing a general post about things like this. I would like a thread that talks about the post to which I linked, since I think it is one of the best posts I've read - ever - in the five years+ I've been reading, commenting and writing in the Bloggernacle.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
Bruce in Montana
Posts: 280
Joined: 02 Jun 2009, 16:14

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by Bruce in Montana » 15 Dec 2012, 11:31

Thanks for that Ray. Excellent article.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
-William S.

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5435
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: The Elementary School Shooting Today

Post by SamBee » 15 Dec 2012, 11:45

So where was our loving God yesterday? Was he a no-show?
Free Agency I guess. :x
What kind of a monster can go into a kindergarden classroom and start shooting crying little kids?
Someone who is mentally ill? The question is, did he know what he was doing, and how did he get to that state?
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Post Reply