TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.

Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

Yes
28
76%
No
9
24%
 
Total votes: 37

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Luther Hegs
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TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by Luther Hegs » 11 Jul 2012, 21:27

Yes. But I believe that I should use the best information available to take care of the temple that is my body. I believe that the revelation in section 89 is to be wise and use the best information and judgement available. Two examples: 1) wheat is not for this man nor are other grains - Celiac is difficult to live with so I can't follow that part of it as the church interprets it; 2) I believe the best available evidence is that occasional use of wine has many health benefits that are applicable to my genetic health risks - so I would be unwise to not use that to take care of my body/temple. Be wise is the underlying principle - if I do that then I am keeping the word of wisdom.

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Brian Johnston
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by Brian Johnston » 12 Jul 2012, 11:21

This is one of the three reasons I choose not to hold a temple recommend. I do not feel "unworthy" in the least to be in the temple. I actually really like the idea of the temple and have never felt closer to God or more free from sin. And having spent a great deal of time and energy studying the historical development of the collection of Mormon temple ritual, I appreciated it even more post-transition.

That being said, I voted "No" on this question.

I hold no judgment against others who say "yes" and consume the forbidden four. I can appreciate the arguments against the WoW not being a commandment AND also being flexible to include any health practice we receive via personal revelation (aka studying the best advice, whatever). I'm totally cool with all that, but it isn't my approach. I am so far outside their box that I feel I would be dishonest (or would cause harm) by answering yes, even if they are wrong in asking.

My #1 snag is that I want ZERO hassle about hiding what I do. I won't hide it. I don't go out of my way to broadcast it or wear a Scarlet "W" on my clothing to warn others. But I will tell anyone who asks, if they really want to know. I don't want this to be held over my head in any way.

I think the modern/common interpretation of the WoW is wrong and way off base, but it *IS* the interpretation held by those who will judge me for access. It's their building. They make the rules. I don't really want to argue with them about their rules. In fact, I feel that arguing would probably cause them harm, and in some small way *that* would be a sin to me according to my current paradigm (just a minor point to me).

My personal views are very much in line with what Wayfarer described in his original response. He may agree with this additional observation of mine: I have consumed "prohibited" items in the past and it was a violation of keeping the WoW. I have also consumed them and it was not a violation of the WoW.

A while ago these words of Jesus struck a very deep chord in my soul (and I believe these were probably real words the historical man Jesus spoke, in addition to being wise words from the idealized archetype "The Christ"):
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. -Matt 15:11 KJV
I think this applies to far more than just dietary law. This is a deep spiritual concept with profound implications that strikes into the heart of intention, desire and action in the world (or being acted upon).

When I was a young man, I drank alcohol to excess, did drugs, smoked cigarettes occasionally, coffee, etc. the whole deal. I did this with a spirit of self-destruction. I was very unhappy and angry. I remember many times thinking that I wanted to poison myself into oblivion or unconsciousness. But you see? It wasn't what I was putting into my body that was "defiling" my soul, it was the sadness and anger that was coming out of me. I was pouring drugs and alcohol into my mouth, and pouring darkness and emptiness out of my mouth.

That past of mine, to me, was a violation of the spiritual and literal/physical law of The Word of Wisdom.

Drinking alcohol is not a sin to me, not even to the point of becoming intoxicated. Becoming intoxicated and harming others or myself though? That's a sin that varies in defilement according to the harm caused. I'm just using that as an example.

I spent many years following the standard interpretation, starting when I decided to go on a mission. That period lasted a good 15 or more years, except perhaps a rare cup of coffee. I let go of this though a few years ago after I dug really deep into the history of our current WoW interpretation. I lost all faith in depending on the authority of other people for guidance in this matter.

I also realized I was a happy person, indeed by that point in my life I was a new person, like someone re-born. I was no longer the old dark and self-hating person from my youth who was focused on self-destruction. I can consume whatever I wish with prudence and thanksgiving. I have no physical moderation problems in this area that bother me personally/spiritually.

My biggest problem with the WoW is that I found out I do not have a problem with the WoW.
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

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cwald
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by cwald » 12 Jul 2012, 11:32

Thanks Brian.

Brian Johnston wrote:My biggest problem with the WoW is that I found out I do not have a problem with the WoW.
+1
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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wayfarer
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by wayfarer » 12 Jul 2012, 11:36

cwald wrote:Thanks Brian.
Brian Johnston wrote:My biggest problem with the WoW is that I found out I do not have a problem with the WoW.
+1
+2

I think we all need to have a virtual chat on cwald's porch and try some of his home-made mild drinks made of barley.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

Curt Sunshine
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Jul 2012, 11:44

I think we all need to have a virtual chat on cwald's porch and try some of his home-made mild drinks made of barley.


I'd love the chat, but I wouldn't be partaking of the drinks. I have NO problem being with people who are drinking, but I don't drink with them.

I respect cwald's and Brian's views GREATLY, but they don't work in practical terms for me. I want the chat to be open to those who drink and to those who don't drink - and I think that's not a little thing.

(I know you agree with that, wayfarer, but I just wanted to respond to the actual words you wrote. Sound familiar?) :D
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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wayfarer
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by wayfarer » 12 Jul 2012, 11:50

Ray Degraw wrote:I respect cwald's and Brian's views GREATLY, but they don't work in practical terms for me. I want the chat to be open to those who drink and to those who don't drink - and I think that's not a little thing.

(I know you agree with that, wayfarer, but I just wanted to respond to the actual words you wrote. Sound familiar?) :D
I'm sure cwald can arrange some home-made root beer as well.

And, since it's virtual, you can drink anything you want! Mormon Tea, Postum (oops - no longer made), Near Beer (oops, .1% alcohol: not allowed), Coke, Red Bull (unless you're in bc_pg's wife's ward), or welch's grape juice...
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

Curt Sunshine
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Jul 2012, 11:52

That sounds heavenly, as long as I can choose my drink and not have to swill some of the crap on your list. :wtf: :P
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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wayfarer
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by wayfarer » 12 Jul 2012, 11:56

Ray Degraw wrote:That sounds heavenly, as long as I can choose my drink and not have to swill some of the crap on your list. :wtf: :P
If I had to choose one drink that I find the absolute most heavenly of all, it would be freshly squeezed orange juice. To me, that is pure ecstasy.

and one thing i find absolutely true in the word of wisdom: a ripe fruit in its season is the best. When a tree-ripened Utah peach is ready, it's absolutely magnificent. I tell my wife "It's better than sex", and then suddenly there are a bunch of peaches in the pantry....I wonder what she's trying to tell me...
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

rebeccad
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by rebeccad » 12 Jul 2012, 12:05

I love to read my great grandfather's diary where he complains about how much harder it is to get people to come to the dances he is organizing when the bishop won't let him serve beer.
"The very same people who are good sometimes are the very same people who are bad sometimes, it's funny but it's true" -Fred Rogers

Minyan Man
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 10b: Word of Wisdom

Post by Minyan Man » 12 Jul 2012, 13:09

I always found that beer helped me to dance better.
Or, maybe I didn't care how I danced.

It's one or the other. I don't remember.

Mike from Milton.

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