TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.

Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

Yes
15
83%
No
3
17%
 
Total votes: 18

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wayfarer
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TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by wayfarer » 10 Jul 2012, 20:08

9. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

My answer: Yes, I do the best I can.

I always think it is important to reflect on whether I'm being honest. I have found it in my nature to say boastful things that are not quite true, or when threatened at work, to BS my way through something instead of honestly answering, "I don't know". I truly strive to be without guile, but I find it very difficult. That is my personal struggle.

I remember my father more than once telling me, 'If I catch you lying to me, I'll never trust you again." This was a really bad thing for him to do. Lying is natural to a young teenager: kind of like why does a male peacock put out the big set of feathers? We boast, we exaggerate, we evade, we lie to protect ourselves -- not good, but natural. Maybe this is the natural man that is an enemy to god, but nonetheless, it happens.

So I once lied to my dad (maybe more than once, but it started with once). Then I covered up the lie with another lie. Then it got bigger and bigger until it was completely out of hand. At one point I couldn't even sort out the cockamamie story I concocted. What a mess. Then it all came collapsing in on me and I was in the doghouse for months.

I learned two things here. One, it's better to admit early that I lied, even if it's going to be painful. doubling down never works. and Two, I will never put that kind of threat on any of my kids. To make a natural act something that can never be forgiven simply turns the person into a liar. The church does so much like that with it's expectation of perfection on several of the commandments. It doesn' thelp.

So my take on honesty is to honestly try your hardest to be honest.

And ignore the apparent irony of the Church asking if you are honest in your dealings with your fellow man...Let's just not go there.
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
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Curt Sunshine
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 Jul 2012, 20:15

If it can be asked with a straight face, it can be answered with a straight face.

I always answer that question like you do, wayfarer. I always say something like, "I try my hardest." That's an honest answer for me.

Being honest has never been a problem for me or caused me any hassle from the other person when answering this particular question. I'm not sure how I would respond if anyone ever pushed back at me for that answer - other than perhaps to look at the them like this :? or this :shock: and say, "Seriously?!"
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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cwald
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by cwald » 10 Jul 2012, 20:30

Yes.

I will be honest whether you like it or not.

BTW...this was by far the toughest question for me to answer all those years as a blue shirt, beer drinking EQP. ...and for the most part a closet NOM. I was pretty closed lipped about my unorthodoxy...they all just thought I was a "Jack Mormon."

I felt like I was honest, to myself and my leaders, but not so much to my extended family and branch members.

Perhaps I made a mistake "being honest" with them about my beliefs? But, things without all remedy should be without regard. What is done, is done.

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  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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SilentDawning
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by SilentDawning » 10 Jul 2012, 20:50

I answered "no". Not because I intentionally deceive people, but because if I was totally honest I would lose my job, have my wife hating me, tick off my neighbours, and have no friends. There are times when you need to alter the truth out of preserving relationships, particularly on issues that are sensitive to other people. So in my view, complete honesty is not the hallmark of a spiritually and relationship-sensitive person.

Also, in sales positions, if you are completely honest, you would starve. Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) is alive and well in business and daily life.

It's a question that is doomed to make people lie or give the "try to be" answer that has become standard fare in the church.

Now, what would I answer? Probably "yes" unless I had willful fraud in my life or something illegal, but really, am I totally honest, and is it prudent to be so all the time? Definitely not.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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bc_pg
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by bc_pg » 10 Jul 2012, 21:00

In some ways this is a humorous question.

If you are honest the answer is "yes".

If you are dishonest the answer is "yes".

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wayfarer
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by wayfarer » 10 Jul 2012, 21:15

bc_pg wrote:In some ways this is a humorous question.

If you are honest the answer is "yes".

If you are dishonest the answer is "yes".
let's see if ray can parse the answer, "No, I am never honest, even now, I am lying"...
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
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cwald
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by cwald » 10 Jul 2012, 21:16

bc_pg wrote:In some ways this is a humorous question.

If you are honest the answer is "yes".

If you are dishonest the answer is "yes".
That is a very good point.

Perhaps the question needs to go away....actually there are several questions that need to go away...but I will start that thread when we are done with this exercise.

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by hawkgrrrl » 10 Jul 2012, 23:47

A good friend of mine answered "Of course not! I work in HR!"

I tend to think of this as dealings=transactions. For some reason that's how I always took it. And I wouldn't cheat someone. I would always seek transparency and a win-win, but there are times to omit information, too. For exmple, if sharing your markup puts you at a disadvntage and competitors dont disclose it, then it seems unfair to disclose it. The buyer would have the upper hand.

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mercyngrace
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by mercyngrace » 11 Jul 2012, 04:15

I answer the question "Yes" but I'm not completely honest with people.

The reason is that we live in a very close knit community in a facebook world. People feel entitled to know everything about you and they are nosy. They ask questions that aren't their business and I answer with misleading technical truths in order to end conversations I don't want to engage in.

Is that honest? No.

When it comes to "dealings" as in transactions involving money, commitments, or confidences - you won't find anyone more trustworthy. But I'm a relatively private person and my boundaries are much more important to me than they seem to be to a lot of members of the church.
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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Minyan Man
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 9: Honesty

Post by Minyan Man » 11 Jul 2012, 07:01

Am I honest in my dealings with my fellowmen? Yes.
Am I honest about everything all the time? No & thank God for Repentance.

I have a tendency to stretch the truth when it flatters.
I have a tendency to be quiet when I can't.
We all want to be accepted & admired for something.
If you want to know how intelligent & cute my grandkids are, just ask me.
I'll even send pictures.

Mike from Milton.

ps. This is a silly way to make my point. But, it's probably true on all levels of my life.

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