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TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 10 Jul 2012, 20:04
by wayfarer
8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

My answer: Yes, with emphasis on 'Strive to'.

This is one of the most fair questions in the interview: it looks for an attempt rather than the normal expectation for perfection.

First and foremost among the covenants is to take upon me the name of Jesus Christ and always remember him. To keep his commandments, to me, is to first love myself as a reflection of God and Christ, and then to love others as myself.

This question doesn't ask whether we really do turn our life over to Christ, but rather, do we keep the covenants, laws, and commandments of the gospel. This focus on legalism is problematic, but since the question is about strive, I'll leave this alone.

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 10 Jul 2012, 20:07
by Curt Sunshine
Yes, especially when I add "according to the dictates of my own conscience" - but even strictly as worded.

I wish more of the questions asked, "Do you strive . . . ?" That would eliminate the vast majority of issues for the vast majority of members - since they sincerely are striving.

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 10 Jul 2012, 20:35
by cwald
No.

I do not strive to keep all my covenants I have made "with the church" ...namely, tithing, consecration, WOW, or attending my "other" meetings.

I have however, gone to three SM in row. :)

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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 10 Jul 2012, 20:37
by cwald
Yes wayfarer....legalism sucks, and it is dragging many a church member down the drain.

Please lds people...listen to your own prophets. Well, at least listen to your prophet D. Urchtdorf.

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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 10 Jul 2012, 20:57
by SilentDawning
Well, I put limits on my time and talents -- greater limits than I think the typical TR holder does. Strict limits now. So, I answered no to this one too. Also, my conception of the Church-Man relationship has changed significantly based on my experiences. I kept my marriage covenants at significant personal sacrifice, and at great detriment to my personal happiness, only to find it counted for nothing with the Church when the chips were down when we tried to adopt a child.

I guess I've gotten jaded about the role of temples, seeing them more as a tithing-generator and a means of keeping families together than a truly valuable spiritual experience. I hope this will change, I really do.

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 04:05
by mercyngrace
I do strive to keep my covenants.

I've had periods when, for the sake of my family and my sanity, I consecrated less of me. Currently, though, we are all in.

Last night while I was in the middle of fulfilling one of my three callings, my cell phone rang. I excused myself to take a call from a member of the stake high council who was calling to ask me to speak at an upcoming event. What's that saying about good horses...?

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 13:11
by Minyan Man
I answered yes. In reality, I'm just beginning again.
wayfarer, thank you for the comment:
My answer: Yes, with emphasis on 'Strive to'.
That makes sense for me.

Mike from Milton.

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 13:25
by cwald
This use to be a big guilt problem for me.

Until I realized that I was making covenants with the church...not the gods. IMO, most of the things we covenant to do, are, if we are not careful, can be cult-like pledges of loyalty to the institution. I don't think they are intended to be that way...at least not anymore since polygamy era....but it still happens way to often.

I do have a covenant with the gods at this time...but it has nothing to do with tithing, WOW, obedience to church authority, building up the LDS church, wearing garments and white shirts, or really anything I learned in the temple etc etc.

My covenants are a bit different now...charity, being nice, making the world a better place to live in, giving to those in need, moderation in all things, The Middle Way, treating my wife and kids with respect, finding peace and helping those around me do the same....

WOW? Garments? Nah. I don't think the gods really care about that kind of thing.

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 14:17
by bc_pg
I hope this isn't crossing any lines .

For me personally one of the main reasons I resigned from the church is to formally have my temple covenants rescinded.

I would like to see the church to review with members what the covenants are they will be making instead of them hearing what the covenants are for the very first time when they are expected to make them. Some of those covenants are very significant promises - essentially promising everything you have, are, etc. to belong to the church and available to be asked for at any time - not to God but to the church. I don't believe one should be asked to make those covenants without the opportunity to review them ahead of time.

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 14:35
by mercyngrace
bc_pg wrote:I hope this isn't crossing any lines .

For me personally one of the main reasons I resigned from the church is to formally have my temple covenants rescinded.

I would like to see the church to review with members what the covenants are they will be making instead of them hearing what the covenants are for the very first time when they are expected to make them. Some of those covenants are very significant promises - essentially promising everything you have, are, etc. to belong to the church and available to be asked for at any time - not to God but to the church. I don't believe one should be asked to make those covenants without the opportunity to review them ahead of time.
I don't think this is out of line, bc_pg.

I was thinking about this just this morning. I think the key element is the caveat included at the end of this covenant. We consecrate everything for a specific purpose. If we are asked for anything that does not support that end, we are well within both our rights and our responsibility before God to refuse.

Zion, contrary to popular belief is not the SL Valley and neither is the Kingdom of God only the church.