TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.

Do you strive to keep the convenants you've made (see full question below)?

Yes
13
72%
No
5
28%
 
Total votes: 18

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wayfarer
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TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by wayfarer » 10 Jul 2012, 20:04

8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

My answer: Yes, with emphasis on 'Strive to'.

This is one of the most fair questions in the interview: it looks for an attempt rather than the normal expectation for perfection.

First and foremost among the covenants is to take upon me the name of Jesus Christ and always remember him. To keep his commandments, to me, is to first love myself as a reflection of God and Christ, and then to love others as myself.

This question doesn't ask whether we really do turn our life over to Christ, but rather, do we keep the covenants, laws, and commandments of the gospel. This focus on legalism is problematic, but since the question is about strive, I'll leave this alone.
Last edited by wayfarer on 11 Jul 2012, 19:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by Curt Sunshine » 10 Jul 2012, 20:07

Yes, especially when I add "according to the dictates of my own conscience" - but even strictly as worded.

I wish more of the questions asked, "Do you strive . . . ?" That would eliminate the vast majority of issues for the vast majority of members - since they sincerely are striving.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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cwald
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by cwald » 10 Jul 2012, 20:35

No.

I do not strive to keep all my covenants I have made "with the church" ...namely, tithing, consecration, WOW, or attending my "other" meetings.

I have however, gone to three SM in row. :)

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Last edited by Anonymous on 10 Jul 2012, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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cwald
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by cwald » 10 Jul 2012, 20:37

Yes wayfarer....legalism sucks, and it is dragging many a church member down the drain.

Please lds people...listen to your own prophets. Well, at least listen to your prophet D. Urchtdorf.

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SilentDawning
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by SilentDawning » 10 Jul 2012, 20:57

Well, I put limits on my time and talents -- greater limits than I think the typical TR holder does. Strict limits now. So, I answered no to this one too. Also, my conception of the Church-Man relationship has changed significantly based on my experiences. I kept my marriage covenants at significant personal sacrifice, and at great detriment to my personal happiness, only to find it counted for nothing with the Church when the chips were down when we tried to adopt a child.

I guess I've gotten jaded about the role of temples, seeing them more as a tithing-generator and a means of keeping families together than a truly valuable spiritual experience. I hope this will change, I really do.
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mercyngrace
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by mercyngrace » 11 Jul 2012, 04:05

I do strive to keep my covenants.

I've had periods when, for the sake of my family and my sanity, I consecrated less of me. Currently, though, we are all in.

Last night while I was in the middle of fulfilling one of my three callings, my cell phone rang. I excused myself to take a call from a member of the stake high council who was calling to ask me to speak at an upcoming event. What's that saying about good horses...?
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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Minyan Man
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by Minyan Man » 11 Jul 2012, 13:11

I answered yes. In reality, I'm just beginning again.
wayfarer, thank you for the comment:
My answer: Yes, with emphasis on 'Strive to'.
That makes sense for me.

Mike from Milton.

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cwald
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by cwald » 11 Jul 2012, 13:25

This use to be a big guilt problem for me.

Until I realized that I was making covenants with the church...not the gods. IMO, most of the things we covenant to do, are, if we are not careful, can be cult-like pledges of loyalty to the institution. I don't think they are intended to be that way...at least not anymore since polygamy era....but it still happens way to often.

I do have a covenant with the gods at this time...but it has nothing to do with tithing, WOW, obedience to church authority, building up the LDS church, wearing garments and white shirts, or really anything I learned in the temple etc etc.

My covenants are a bit different now...charity, being nice, making the world a better place to live in, giving to those in need, moderation in all things, The Middle Way, treating my wife and kids with respect, finding peace and helping those around me do the same....

WOW? Garments? Nah. I don't think the gods really care about that kind of thing.
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

bc_pg
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by bc_pg » 11 Jul 2012, 14:17

I hope this isn't crossing any lines .

For me personally one of the main reasons I resigned from the church is to formally have my temple covenants rescinded.

I would like to see the church to review with members what the covenants are they will be making instead of them hearing what the covenants are for the very first time when they are expected to make them. Some of those covenants are very significant promises - essentially promising everything you have, are, etc. to belong to the church and available to be asked for at any time - not to God but to the church. I don't believe one should be asked to make those covenants without the opportunity to review them ahead of time.

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mercyngrace
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Re: TR Question Survey - Question 8: Keeping covenants

Post by mercyngrace » 11 Jul 2012, 14:35

bc_pg wrote:I hope this isn't crossing any lines .

For me personally one of the main reasons I resigned from the church is to formally have my temple covenants rescinded.

I would like to see the church to review with members what the covenants are they will be making instead of them hearing what the covenants are for the very first time when they are expected to make them. Some of those covenants are very significant promises - essentially promising everything you have, are, etc. to belong to the church and available to be asked for at any time - not to God but to the church. I don't believe one should be asked to make those covenants without the opportunity to review them ahead of time.
I don't think this is out of line, bc_pg.

I was thinking about this just this morning. I think the key element is the caveat included at the end of this covenant. We consecrate everything for a specific purpose. If we are asked for anything that does not support that end, we are well within both our rights and our responsibility before God to refuse.

Zion, contrary to popular belief is not the SL Valley and neither is the Kingdom of God only the church.
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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