TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadership

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.

Do you sustain LDS leadership as noted below in the full question?

Yes
20
67%
No
10
33%
 
Total votes: 30

BobDixon
Posts: 42
Joined: 09 Jan 2009, 06:19

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by BobDixon » 12 Jul 2012, 11:22

cwald wrote: So, here is a valid question. If the people in those stakes don't back down and continue to protest the MTC building plans...ARE THEY SUSTAINING THEIR LEADERS?

PS. I'm not changing my vote yet...it's still no for the time being.
Doesn't sound like it to me, which is why I posted this. We may have a very loose definition of "sustain", but I don't think that's the working definition the leaders are using.

Also the word "sustain" is pregnant with meaning. Opposing the building plan is "not sustaining", which equates to "no temple recommend" and "no job" if you work for the church. I doubt it was chosen carelessly, and they knew exactly what they were implying.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16060
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Jul 2012, 11:39

Members who did not actively support Prop 8, and even those who publicly opposed it, were not supposed to be disciplined by the Church in any way. They were not required to lose their temple recommends as a result, which, to me, means, at the most practical level concerning temple attendance, that the Church understands that "sustaining leadership" does not mean "obeying everything that is said no matter how you feel about it".

Some local leaders will disagree with me, but I don't care. I'm just not into Lucifer's plan.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
wayfarer
Posts: 1335
Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 15:59
Location: in ye olde world
Contact:

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by wayfarer » 12 Jul 2012, 11:41

Ray Degraw wrote:Members who did not actively support Prop 8, and even those who publicly opposed it, were not supposed to be disciplined by the Church in any way. They were not required to lose their temple recommends as a result, which, to me, means, at the most practical level concerning temple attendance, that the Church understands that "sustaining leadership" does not mean "obeying everything that is said no matter how you feel about it".

Some local leaders will disagree with me, but I don't care. I'm just not into Lucifer's plan.
+1000 - Ray, sometimes I actually like you!

:P
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16060
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Jul 2012, 11:46

Ray, sometimes I actually like you!


Sorry, I'll try harder to stop it. ;)
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Roy
Posts: 4999
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by Roy » 12 Jul 2012, 12:43

Ray Degraw wrote:Some local leaders will disagree with me, but I don't care. I'm just not into Lucifer's plan.
Whoa, hold on there! Can we get that last sentence moderated?!?! :lol:

Yes! I recognize the leaders of the LDS church as the legitimate leaders of the church. I support them in their roles and believe them to be doing the best job that they can. I like what M&G said about them being the maintainers or guardians of the structure and rituals of the church. When it comes to baptizing DD in the coming year or when she gets married in the distant future, I am glad that there are these structures and supports in place.

I no longer believe the leaders of the church to be intermediaries between myself and God. I am not sure that God has selected these individuals to lead the church as the terms "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" might imply. It is entirely possible that the processes involved in filling role vacancies evolved over time and involve a minimum of inspiration. However these men get into their positions, I view the process as legitimate and the positions being held as legitimate church leadership posts.

I further believe that "support/sustain" is up to me to define and give. If it is demanded or coerced then it ceases to be "support" and morphs into something else. One of the ways that I believe that I support the leadership is to bring to their attention things that I believe are amiss or unhelpful. I do not reach out to "steady the ark," I respectfully voice my opinion to those that are in a legitimate position to make course corrections.

So, taken together, I answer yes to this question.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

User avatar
Brian Johnston
Site Admin
Posts: 3486
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 06:17
Location: Washington DC

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by Brian Johnston » 13 Jul 2012, 11:58

Yes. But sustaining means to me that I want them to be the best and most effective at what they do.

Being a sycophantic "yes man," never questioning or disagreeing, showing total dependence and lack of free will, that IS NOT sustaining leaders. That is undermining them as surely as anything else.

I wish them well. I sometimes wish they would be better. I try to help make that happen.
"It's strange to be here. The mystery never leaves you alone." -John O'Donohue, Anam Cara, speaking of experiencing life.

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 4961
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: TR Question Survey - Question 4: Sustaining LDS Leadersh

Post by SamBee » 21 Dec 2012, 06:48

I sustain them, but that doesn't mean that I agree with them all the time.

There is one older GA whose statements I find troubling. But I still sustain him, because he does other things I find worthwhile.

I certainly have no problem considering Thomas S. Monson the prophet of God. He strikes me as a decent man.

Do we find inspiration elsewhere? Of course. At the very least, orthodox Mormon doctrine teaches personal revelation.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

Post Reply