World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Public forum to discuss questions about Mormon history and doctrine.
Unsure Footing
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Unsure Footing » 14 Feb 2011, 17:07

I had some thoughts as we discussed CHI, Book2, Chapter 4 in our leadership meeting on Sunday. First of all I really like the direction and spirit of viewing the programs of the church as a supporting resource to the spirituality of individuals and families. I really felt like the Gospel was being swallowed up in some ways, and many members' religion became the culture and programs of the Church rather than the Gospel. By putting the focus on supporting individuals and families I feel like there is much more room for tolerance of people in different places spiritually - a widening of the tent.

The more unique thought I had was that I wonder if the transparency on Book 2 and the publicly accessible training meetings online might become a resource for other non-LDS christian churches? I know it is hard to imagine any other church wanting to do things the "mormon way", but maybe there are some things that we do in the mormon church which could serve as a useful model to support other congregations? I have no idea whether or not pastors/ministers make a habit of trolling through all of the resources available on lds.org - but I think there is truly an impressive amount of information there.

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SilentDawning
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SilentDawning » 14 Feb 2011, 20:42

Even when my father went anti-Mormon, he was really impressed when my home teachers came over. He thought it was a great program. I'm pretty sure we could also learn from a lot of other Churches out there too. I think other Churches would look at our stuff and then glean something from it. It probably wouldn't sell, though, if they indicated it is "something the Mormon's do".
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Feb 2011, 08:15

I drove in rural Southeastern Ohio years ago on a regular basis, and the only radio options were farm-related stock exchange rates and religion - so I listened to the religious program. There was a Protestant minister who regularly preached openly about "Mormon cultists" and mentioned occasionally that nothing good ever comes from such devilish sources.

I had to laugh one day as I heard him tell his listeners about a wonderful idea that James Hobson (Focus on the Family) had been inspired to teach. It encouraged Christians to set aside one evening each week to spend with their families - to share the Gospel, testify and engage in fun activities in order to strengthen the family and bring Christians closer to God. It obviously was prophecy for our time, and he thanked God for inspiring Hobson in such a manner.

We certainly can learn things from others, but they certainly can learn things from us - even if they can't attribute those things to us. :P
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Heber13
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Heber13 » 15 Feb 2011, 14:49

Unsure Footing wrote:I know it is hard to imagine any other church wanting to do things the "mormon way", but maybe there are some things that we do in the mormon church which could serve as a useful model to support other congregations?
Also hard to imagine for some devout mormons, but we can learn a lot from the way other congregations do things as well. Because we claim to have truth doesn't mean we have to come up with it all ourselves.
“One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from where it may.”
- Joseph Smith
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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epiginosko
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by epiginosko » 16 Feb 2011, 10:04

Policies based on doctrine = Doctrinal. Okay, I can accept that definition. However, if the GA's want to tout the CHI as "Official Doctrine" (which I don't think they are), then they need to canonize the CHI into our Standard Works. Otherwise, it simply remains policy and an interpretation of the laws.
"I may not walk the straight and the narrow, but I sure as hell try to cross it as often as I can." - J. Golden Kimball

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MtnMan
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by MtnMan » 18 Feb 2011, 19:19

My wife came home from the training and said that previously, as non-temple recommend holding member I would not have been allowed to bless my babies or baptize my children. She says that this has been changed and that a person in my position would now be able to bless and baptize his children. She said that I would still not be able to confirm my child, but would be allowed to stand in the circle. Do you guys know about this? This is pretty relevant to me as I have a new bornwho will be blessed soon, and a child that will be baptized in a couple of years.

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SilentDawning
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SilentDawning » 18 Feb 2011, 19:28

MtnMan wrote:My wife came home from the training and said that previously, as non-temple recommend holding member I would not have been allowed to bless my babies or baptize my children. She says that this has been changed and that a person in my position would now be able to bless and baptize his children. She said that I would still not be able to confirm my child, but would be allowed to stand in the circle. Do you guys know about this? This is pretty relevant to me as I have a new bornwho will be blessed soon, and a child that will be baptized in a couple of years.

That's the new reading I've heard of, although I hear there is some wiggle room for the Bishops. Someone else might want to confirm what I've been hearing and the wiggle room I perceived when reading the wording.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Curt Sunshine
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Curt Sunshine » 18 Feb 2011, 22:36

The wording now is very clear that the only times there is an absolute need for a current temple recommend and "full temple worthiness" is when the person is acting as the voice who is representing the Church itself in an ordinance that traditionally includes a circle of Priesthood holders and requires the Melchizedek Priesthood. Otherwise, a Stake President or Bishop may allow a father, for example, who is not "fully temple worthy" but is not embroiled in "serious sin" to baptize his children or confirm them to an office in the Aaronic Priesthood, to bless his children in Sacrament Meeting, etc.

I really like this change, but it still leaves the ultimate decision in the hands of the Bishop or Stake President. I can't see a way around that, frankly, but it will create situations where two people with the exact same situation will be held to different standards, based on the mindset of their individual leader. Again, I can't see a reasonable way around that when it comes to something like baptism, but I certainly feel for someone with a stricter leader who knows of someone else with a more lenient outlook.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Unsure Footing
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Unsure Footing » 21 Feb 2011, 11:58

If I were a Bishop in that situation I would probably revert to the last question on the Temple Recommend interview in deciding whether the person should perform the ordinance. "Do YOU feel worthy?"

Still results in the same problems that Ray has mentioned, but I think it helps take the Bishop out of the bad-guy seat a little bit.

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SamBee
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SamBee » 22 Feb 2011, 11:54

I may be given a copy of the CHI in the near future, I think from what someone said to me.

I await it with bated breath...
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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