World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

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SilentDawning
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World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SilentDawning » 12 Feb 2011, 12:05

My wife came home from WW training today and said "The guys at StayLDS aren't going to be very happy...after what I heard at the training today. She said the following:

1. Elder Oakes said the CHI is doctrine.
2. Elder Holland said it is "based on doctrine".
3. Someone stood up and said it was doctrine.

Don't know if anyone else was there, but this sounds kind of disturbing.

Was anyone there to vouch for this? Comments?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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mercyngrace
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by mercyngrace » 12 Feb 2011, 12:30

In the last meeting, it was clarified that the policies and procedures need to be implemented when managing a large institution but that the Spirit should be what determines how we execute the Lord's work and our callings.

Was that changed? If so, I've got some serious concerns...
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

Curt Sunshine
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Feb 2011, 14:50

I will ask around and find out.

In the training in November, it was stated clearly that the CHI is NOT doctrine.

Now, if the first time they meant "immutable Truth" (not) and the second time they meant "what the Church teaches generally" (sure) . . . I can agree with both statements. :lol:
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SilentDawning » 12 Feb 2011, 15:42

The distinction between doctrine and mere policy is starting to become very blurry.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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mercyngrace
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by mercyngrace » 12 Feb 2011, 15:45

SilentDawning wrote:The distinction between doctrine and mere policy is starting to become very blurry.
SD,
On another forum, someone said that the statement was very specifically applied to Book 2 - the auxiliary leaders handbook.
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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SilentDawning
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SilentDawning » 12 Feb 2011, 17:41

SD, On another forum, someone said that the statement was very specifically applied to Book 2 - the auxiliary leaders handbook.
I thought there was a process that information had to go through to be accepted as doctrine -- involving a vote before the Church....there has been much ado about that on this site with the What is Doctrine Essay. So, how a leader can just up and say it's doctrine is beyond me. Also, I would think the Prophet would be the one to indicate what is doctrine and what isn't on big matters like this.

Also, I'm starting to believe the Q12 and Prophet don't think much about whether the various Church publications we experience are revelation/doctrine or mere policy. If what my wife says is true, there has been lack of unity on these subjects among high level leaders. BKPacker says the Proclamation qualifies as revelation, then his talk was edited to remove or soften that claim. In one meeting we hear the CHI is doctrine, then we hear it is only based on it. In the first WWW training, Ray said E Bednar indicated the new CHI represents the current crop of top leaders "best understanding" (not doctrine) of how to apply gospel principles to Church work....and the list goes on.

So, I'm wondering if we're paying more attention to the classification of the CHI as doctrine/revelation/policy than even the GA's have considered.

In the end, whether doctrine or revelation, it will control behavior within the Church to some extent, and we will have to deal with it -- whether it's revelation, doctrine or policy or not. And whether I get behind any idea in the Church is ultimately my judgment. The only constraints are the social impact of being ostracized or somehow punished for not following it, limits on one's ability to particpate in ordinances, and my own view of the concept in question....
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Cadence
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Cadence » 12 Feb 2011, 18:43

Policy in the church might as well be doctrine. If you go against it, ignore it, or publicly express a contrary opinion you are a heretic just like doctrine. So maybe doctrine tells us about the nature of God and sets out commandments and policy just is just that policy. But in the end both will control your life in the church to pretty much the same degree.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

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mercyngrace
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by mercyngrace » 12 Feb 2011, 19:48

SilentDawning wrote: So, I'm wondering if we're paying more attention to the classification of the CHI as doctrine/revelation/policy than even the GA's have considered.
I could be wrong but I think so.
Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. ~ Luke 7:47

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SilentDawning
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by SilentDawning » 12 Feb 2011, 20:24

Cadence wrote:Policy in the church might as well be doctrine. If you go against it, ignore it, or publicly express a contrary opinion you are a heretic just like doctrine. So maybe doctrine tells us about the nature of God and sets out commandments and policy just is just that policy. But in the end both will control your life in the church to pretty much the same degree.
This is where I've come to rest as we've discussed the whole doctrine/revelation/policy issue. Although the distinctions we discussed here provided some comfort.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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Tom Haws
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Re: World Wide Training: CHI is Doctrine

Post by Tom Haws » 13 Feb 2011, 00:35

What Cadence said. And as cwald said in another thread:

"For all intent and purposes, Brian is right - there really is not much difference between "suggestions, council, commandments, revelation, policy." As far as the local leaders are concerned, they are the same thing, in most cases."

Why split hairs? It doesn't seem to really matter.
Tom (aka Justin Martyr/Justin Morning/Jacob Marley/Kupord Maizzed)
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Gilbert, Arizona
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Sure, any religion would do. But I'm LDS.
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