Can't we be joyful?

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Gerald
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Can't we be joyful?

Post by Gerald » 06 Oct 2019, 06:33

I've said this before: I try REALLY hard not to be critical of Church leaders. BUT...what is it with President Nelson and his need for "sacred silence :shh: ". He spent at least a minute (maybe more) last night telling the audience to control themselves during the announcement of temples. :eh: Why not let the members be excited and express that excitement? :problem: Okay, I'll say no more..... :silent:
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

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DarkJedi
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by DarkJedi » 06 Oct 2019, 12:14

Honestly I don't get it either. I think he might see it as a reverence thing, but reverence comes from within not because he's demanding it. Personally I don't see any harm in shouting for joy in this situation. Mind you I'm not of the disposition to do that anyway but I see no harm by those who are so disposed.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by mom3 » 06 Oct 2019, 14:36

What about Brigham Young and his "Hurrah for Isreal" shouts?

What about Hosannah's?

"We'll sing and we'll shout with the armies of heaven"? - I swear that's a song we wrote.

Even President Hinckley enjoyed audience jubilation. I had friends who attended conference shortly after the conference center was up and running. President Hinckley arrived with a cane. In a humorous gesture he began waving the cane as if he were knighting the audience. People laughed and cheered.

I've said this before, Nelson is competitive. He is competing with the Ghost of Hinckley, who was beloved, and the ghost of Nelson's own insecurities. So he runs to extremes.

Under Uchtdorf we will be joyful. I promise.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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nibbler
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by nibbler » 06 Oct 2019, 14:58

It's ironic. The hosanna shout is meant to celebrate the temple but it's this awkward, forced, scripted celebration. Meanwhile we're shutting down actual celebratory shouts.

Follow the script. The shout was shouted. Check the box. Joy.
The wound is the place where the light enters you.
— Rumi

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Heavy_Laden
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by Heavy_Laden » 06 Oct 2019, 18:45

Under Uchtdorf we will be joyful. I promise.
Whoa... That deserves another thread.
I'm an Independent Mormon and it's okay. - Staylds.org

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Daughter1
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by Daughter1 » 11 Oct 2019, 20:01

I can shed a bit of light on why this may be. The last time we weren't told not to shout, Utah got a couple new temples. The shouts from people from those areas almost drown out the announcement of some of the overseas temples. I didn't really notice, but one of my friends had served in an area where a temple was being announced and wasn't actually sure if she'd heard correctly. I haven't listened to Saturday night yet, so I'm not sure how it was done this time, but the first "please respond with respect" came at the very session after the one I'm referencing. (Is this making sense - I'm tired). I think it started as an attempt to keep things in control so everyone could get the chance to celebrate their own temple. However, it became this broad "don't cheer" thing instead. The request for some respect makes sense. From remarks here, it's gotten overboard.
I don't think there could ever be just one single philosophy or one single religion. Since there are so many different types of people, with a range of tendencies and inclinations, it is quite fitting that there are differences between religions. And the fact that there are so many different descriptions of the religious path shows how rich religion is. - HH the XIV Dalai Lama

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Oct 2019, 21:04

He tells jokes and laughs from the pulpit. (e.g., "You like 2-hour church. We like 2-hour church.")

I think daughter1's comment is spot-on. He probably didn't want the reactions from those in attendance to drown out the rest of the announcements.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by DarkJedi » 14 Oct 2019, 06:37

I don't know Curt. In the past there were short little whoops or perhaps gasps, but no prolonged applause and cheering that drowned anybody out or added minutes to the meeting. Frankly I think he's overdoing it and I don't think people see that as something positive about him - sort of like the father who forces their kids to wear their church clothes all day Sunday.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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nibbler
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by nibbler » 14 Oct 2019, 07:30

Here's a direct link to some temple announcement reactions that I bet went a long way towards deciding to toss a wet blanket on celebrations.

October 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYOLBJnpDKs&t=4m45s

The "irreverence" starts off with the Salvador Brazil announcement.
The Yuba City California guy woots, because the previous woot broke the ice.
The Auckland New Zeland reaction was likely the straw that broke the camel's back.
San Juan Puerto Rico got a reaction.
The crowd laughed because there was no reaction to the Washington County Utah announcement.

At the end Nelson was smiling, he was good natured about it at the time.

I didn't hear any instances of a temple announcement being drowned out by a reaction to a previous announcement. There were long, exaggerated pauses waiting for the woot woots to die down between each announcement. Having to wait on reaction to end before announcing the next temple probably factored into the decision.

Some of those woots did get out of hand IMO.

The very next conference, April 2019, Nelson prefaced the temple announcements with the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35t4czaLr-o&t=4m13s
Now, please, listen carefully and reverently. If I announce a temple in a place that is special to you, may I suggest that you simply bow your head with a silent prayer of gratitude in your heart. We do not want any verbal outburst to detract from the sacred nature of this conference and the Lord's holy temples.
Which is a quintessential Mormon response.
The wound is the place where the light enters you.
— Rumi

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nibbler
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Re: Can't we be joyful?

Post by nibbler » 14 Oct 2019, 07:39

The next time they announce temples during general conference:

Image
The wound is the place where the light enters you.
— Rumi

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