Feeling the pull..

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4182
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Feeling the pull..

Post by nibbler » 13 Aug 2019, 17:54

Heavy_Laden wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 14:02
If I am not a member of their Ward, wouldn't I be excluded from a calling? ...
Yes, there is that. If you don't want a calling then don't press to get your records transferred to the ward you're attending.

I'll add my anecdotal stories.

I was once in a ward and later moved to a few blocks just outside the boundaries. We made a case and we were allowed to remain in the ward even though technically we should have been assigned to the other ward. In that instance the BP said the SP okayed it and in our case it was a simple matter of not transferring records out.

I know of another family that attended a ward in a different city because they just didn't mesh with their assigned ward. They attended the other ward for decades.

I do see the policy of requiring membership records to be kept in the ward where the member lives. If you want to be in a different ward you'd have to get the consent of the BPs and the SPs of the place of origin and destination and approval of the Office of the First Presidency.

I have no way of knowing, but I wonder whether the SP sent a letter to the Office of the First Presidency when I lived a few blocks outside my geographical ward. Since it was in the same stake it may have stopped at the stake level. Membership records are regularly audited.

I get the feeling that saying "that action requires approval from the First Presidency" is more of a deterrent to keep the number of requests down. It communicates that the request should make people (and leaders) think twice about allowing exceptions to the established rules. I've got to think that with something simple like moving records to a different ward that by the time the BPs and SPs sign off the Office of the First Presidency is little more than a rubber stamp.
He who sits alone, sleeps alone, and walks alone, who is strenuous and subdues himself alone, will find delight in the solitude of the forest.
— Buddha

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6784
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: Feeling the pull..

Post by DarkJedi » 14 Aug 2019, 09:24

nibbler wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 17:54
Heavy_Laden wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 14:02
If I am not a member of their Ward, wouldn't I be excluded from a calling? ...
Yes, there is that. If you don't want a calling then don't press to get your records transferred to the ward you're attending.
There is that out as well. It really does depend on what you want. I have several anecdotal stories as well but I'll spare you those ones because that point has been made and I agree the FP thing is likely a response to try to keep the masses from requesting it. I will tell this story, though. We have a "member of our ward" who does own a house here (it's rented to a member family currently) and did actually live at that house for many years while his family was growing up. He travels extensively all over the country for work, but he did that when his kids were young as well. Most of his children have settled in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint Corridor, and a few years back his wife relocated there as well (she works for a large international hotel corporation headquartered in SLC). His membership record, however, remains here. He does visit on occasion, maybe 3 or 4 times a year and usually in conjunction with his business travel. It took me quite a while to figure out why he leaves his record here when he actually does spend the majority of his home time in SLC. Then it dawned on me - he's got it great. He doesn't have a calling because he's never here, yet he can still have a TR because he is a member of our ward and presumably can answer the questions appropriately (I do know he does go to the temple sometimes). The fact that he's never here doesn't mean he doesn't attend church, and knowing him well enough I'm pretty sure he does attend church almost weekly, wherever he is. He's way more sly than I thought he was.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

brit-exmo
Posts: 58
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 08:30
Location: Great Britain

Re: Feeling the pull..

Post by brit-exmo » 18 Oct 2019, 05:39

A real interesting thread!

I attend both LDS and CofC services, though I only really go to the LDS service because of my wife and kids who still attend there, I drop them off stay for 10 minutes or so then head to CofC, who's building is conveniently 5mins drive from the LDS Chapel

I have found CofC to be a good place, their theology is so flexible, I get the impression that whatever direction I feel led to they will be there with full support. My LDS friends, while polite and nice to me, if I wanted to get more involved would expect me to confirm to their beliefs and culture eventually. I have a few close friends who are LDS and I love the fraternity that it gives, I spent some time in Utah and Idaho recently (I'm in the UK) and I can see the benefits of the LDS business network, nothing like it really exists in CofC.

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 7152
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Feeling the pull..

Post by Heber13 » 18 Oct 2019, 06:55

Heavy_Laden wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 05:41
I am way more smarter than that nowadays. I don't give people jurisdiction over me, but I have done my best to stay away from that situation.
:thumbup:

I think that's a great way to handle it. It also shows that we learn and grow through these less than ideal organizations.

Sometimes the purposes of God can be achieved even despite the church and it's imperfections.

How we handle these challenges and feelings is part of the experience.

I don't think there is a "wrong" way of doing it...you just be you, follow your heart, don't give others power over you, stay humble and seek to serve and contribute and learn...but do it your way.

The hard part is that at some point it doesn't feel the middle way is supported anywhere except in your heart. But then again, maybe that is the point. Maybe we are to learn to go inwards and trust our instincts and impressions instead of having others validate us.

Maybe if God provided the Golden Community...we would be robbed of the struggle to create our own?

I second Roy's comments...we don't know for sure. But it's one hell of a ride! And there are others journeying on their own, perhaps we can individually journey together. :D
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

User avatar
Heavy_Laden
Posts: 65
Joined: 27 Jul 2013, 19:51
Location: Upper Midwest United States

Nice Posts Thanks!

Post by Heavy_Laden » 26 Oct 2019, 15:28

The hard part is that at some point it doesn't feel the middle way is supported anywhere except in your heart. But then again, maybe that is the point. Maybe we are to learn to go inwards and trust our instincts and impressions instead of having others validate us.

Maybe if God provided the Golden Community...we would be robbed of the struggle to create our own?
Validation by others.. I have some experience with that too. As someone who is a bit awkward in church settings, I looked for validation elsewhere. I am a car guy and participated heavy in car forums very similar to this place. I kept buying things for my cars, posting about it online, uploading updates to CarDomain, reading comments.. blah blah blah. I got validation there from the comments, thumbs ups at car meets, whatever.. After awhile, I figured out that having a car was fun but all it was doing was feeding my ego. It was the only time in my life where I was "cool" but much of those relationships were as shallow as a the church ones. Eventually, I quit posting (forums are passe anyway) and I sold the last car last April after 11 years of ownership. Now I am normal person with 4 cars instead of 5, one for each driver in my household (we have limited mass transit options here).

I was also validated by CofC online people.. I used to think I was cool there too. I helped by posting things often on the FB groups that were testimony and faith promoting. People liked my post, sometimes by the dozens and gave me such praise. After 4-5 years participating in FB groups and contributing, I found out that people aren't real friends and I am not a value to them. I removed the groups from my FB feed and focused my energy on the people locally.

I was recently given an opportunity to serve CofC in their local equivalent of a Stake (Mission Center) and will be sustained within the next couple of weeks. I will be traveling to local congregations as an ambassador for the Mission Center, offering assistance and preaching once in awhile. All of the congregations are in my area and have relationships with them already. I didn't agree to it because I wanted to move up the ranks, I did it because it works with my personal mission. That mission is to build relationships, remind people that God knows and loves them and to be a blessing to people individually. That mission transcends churches and is not tied to anyone but myself. I'm giving this a year to see if it does further my mission and am not afraid to step away if it doesn't.

That golden community that checks all the boxes doesn't exist. I don't have a testimony of the One-True-Church other than the one that exists in my heart. Church is community and helps organize people to do (hopefully) good things for their neighbors. It is up to us to be patient with one another, look for the good in organizations and build your own faith and testimony with the tools that you have. Your church "tool" might not be the right shape or dull, but it can be used to create something new. There are inspired but flawed people running these organizations, it is up to everyone to use their brains and either keep or discard whatever is being presented. I've learned all of this being out here in the Boarderlands and they are just as valid as anyone else's experience in the church.
I'm an Independent Mormon and it's okay.

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 7152
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Nice Posts Thanks!

Post by Heber13 » 27 Oct 2019, 07:01

Heavy_Laden wrote:
26 Oct 2019, 15:28
I didn't agree to it because I wanted to move up the ranks, I did it because it works with my personal mission. That mission is to build relationships, remind people that God knows and loves them and to be a blessing to people individually. That mission transcends churches and is not tied to anyone but myself. I'm giving this a year to see if it does further my mission and am not afraid to step away if it doesn't.
Wow. Now that is about the most awesome thing I've read online in a while. Thank you for that.

I'd validate your effort...but you're not needing that, are you? ;)

I loved your story of the car and the shallow friendships it was limited to, like church can be sometimes. People at church can be nice, and be friendly, but as a good friend of mine told me once:
I've found that all too often the only thing people at church want to talk about is church. What did I like about conference? Isn't it great to have the temple open again? Did you do your ministering assignment?
Nice ice breakers I guess, but the relationships never really evolved past the ice breakers.
perhaps that is social interaction that is fine as a starting point. It is what it is.

And maybe we learn eventually that there is greater meaning in going to socialize with a personal mission, regardless of what others do or don't do to validate.

I'm interested to hear more from heavy_laden on how that assignment goes and what comes of the Mission Center assignment. It sounds like a good cause and I really respect you for it.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Post Reply