Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

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Curt Sunshine
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Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 26 Apr 2019, 21:06

Matthew Easton graduated today as the Valedictorian of the BYU Political Science Department.

He included the following in his speech:
"As a gay son of God..."


Here is the link to the video of the entire speech. It is exceptional.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... LeMVykzvKY
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mom3
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by mom3 » 26 Apr 2019, 21:13

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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DarkJedi
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by DarkJedi » 27 Apr 2019, 05:22

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Incidentally I happen to know some people who were at that particular graduation - I can't wait to ask them about it.

Edited to add link to the Youtube video. (The line is just before the four minute mark, but the whole 6+ minutes are good)

https://youtu.be/rLeMVykzvKY

Ray: Thanks, DJ. I included the link in the original post once I had the chance to do so.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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DoubtingTom
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by DoubtingTom » 27 Apr 2019, 06:30

Definitely a sign of progress that a gay man can come out publicly like that at BYU.

I can’t help but feel sorrow for his difficult sojourn in the church if he chooses to stay. Living a life devoid of the loving and intimate connections that are so fulfilling to the human experience and essentially becoming a marginalized member of his community.

I love seeing progress but the church is still not a safe space for those of the LGBTQ community.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by DarkJedi » 27 Apr 2019, 08:51

DoubtingTom wrote:
27 Apr 2019, 06:30
Definitely a sign of progress that a gay man can come out publicly like that at BYU.
True. Even 5 years ago he probably could not have done that.
I can’t help but feel sorrow for his difficult sojourn in the church if he chooses to stay. Living a life devoid of the loving and intimate connections that are so fulfilling to the human experience and essentially becoming a marginalized member of his community.

I love seeing progress but the church is still not a safe space for those of the LGBTQ community.
Also true. But who knows where we might be 5 years from now?
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 27 Apr 2019, 17:40

My children's generation (his generation) is going to change the Church. His speech was met with widespread applause. That says something important.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Minyan Man
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by Minyan Man » 27 Apr 2019, 20:39

I saw it on youtube as well. It is very encouraging.

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rrosskopf
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by rrosskopf » 28 Apr 2019, 01:24

Moderator note: This post has been moved for review.

It is being reinserted, with an admin note in the following comment.


Can a gay person not find love and intimacy with the opposite sex? They usually don't want to, but I'm pretty sure they can. Humans have a greater capacity for love than these labels will suggest.

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 Apr 2019, 19:58

Admin Note: We have found over the years that debate about sensitive issues involving radically different views can and usually do become contentious and divisive in a hurry. That result is not in line with our mission, so we focus carefully on keeping threads focused on the point of the original posts, as much as possible. We need to keep that in mind with this post.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Curt Sunshine
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Posts: 16533
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Being Gay at BYU: Times, They Are a Changing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 Apr 2019, 20:10

This is a personal comment, not an admin note. I just want to make that clear.

My intent in writing this post was NOT to launch a debate about homosexuality or any LGBTQ+ issue. My focus was on the obvious fact that a BYU valedictorian coming out to their entire college in a public speech would not have happened even a few years ago - and it certainly wouldn't have been met by widespread applause from the faculty and student body. I did not want a debate about whether or not full intimacy is possible in a mixed-sex marriage when one person is same-sex attracted. The answer is simple (No), but the explanation is extremely complex.

A good discussion of that question would require a long, detailed disucussion of new medical / neurological understanding of what it means to be LGBTQ+ - including the distinctions among those classifications. Particularly, it would require a solid explanation of the differences between being lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgender, and queer - and then an explanation of the subcategories within being queer. For a straight, cisgender male, I am reasonably qualified to have that discussion, but this is not the thread for me to tackle it. It might not be the forum, either.

So, as the author of the original post, I ask that comments remain focused on the intent I outlined in the first detailed paragraph of this comment.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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