Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

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DarkJedi
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by DarkJedi » 08 Apr 2019, 15:06

Music fits the topic, I think. If not, consider this a side note.

Being Saturday was April 6, there was plenty of opportunity to sing restoration hymns which would include "Joseph Smith's First Prayer." I don't hate that song, but I don't love it and it's hard to sing. Instead the songs were very Christ centered - and I appreciate it.

The good: The BYU choir Saturday afternoon. They outshined the Tabernacle Choir. I don't think this is all that unusual, actually. There's a version of Come Thou Fount by BYU that's way better than the Tab.

The not-as-good: The Tabernacle Choir. Not horrible, just some constructive observations. I have noticed a trend in the Tabernacle Choir to sing softer, highlight the women's voices and almost completely ignore the strength of the male voices they could have, and they are singing too slow sometimes (most of the time, maybe taking ques from their wards where every song is a funeral dirge). There were some great songs to highlight the men's voices, Jesus Once of Humble Birth for example. That's why I think BYU did better.

The not-quite-as-good-as-the-not-as good: The boys in priesthood session. I will cut them a break in recognition that it is really hard to get a group like that together to practice and learn parts. Hence, they sang in unison always (no harmony) and sometimes they were flat. I was expecting the worst when they sang Beautiful Savior, one of my favs. However, it could have been worse (but not much).
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

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mom3
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by mom3 » 08 Apr 2019, 16:04

I am turning an interesting corner. I don't know how it's all going to play out. I have been soaking up the Beatitudes for Lent. I have even broken out the BoM version. I feel a call to anchor a life in them. (It's super hard to do). GC - doubles that struggle. I find myself listening from multiple vantage points.

24 hours later I don't have a favorite. There are a handful that fight for the top - Eubanks, Uchtdorf, Ballard, Holland, Bednar (crazy as that is), Soares.

Not favorites are multiple. I know too many hurting people, in and out of our church who yearn for gifts we can give.

My favorite parts were the parts where love was the anchor. I grew up in a part member family. My grandparents were members of record but entirely inactive. My grandfather did return - on his own in the final year of his life - no one knows why, he never offered/we never asked. We never treated or looked at them differently. They were my heroes. The echoes of their lives course through me. Naturally we did their temple work. I still didn't love them any differently. Nothing about the church made them different to me. - I wish we could love like that.

I heard it a bunch. My goal is to write every quote from this conference that says that, and start verbalizing it until it takes effect. Love really is the key.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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Gerald
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by Gerald » 14 Apr 2019, 13:30

Not so much a talk but I thought President Nelson's concluding remarks a bit odd. His instructions to the congregation at the Conference Center regarding reactions to temple announcements just seemed a bit harsh. I'm not sure what is wrong with a few expressions of joy or surprise breaking up the (in my opinion) overly stage managed meeting that is General Conference. As I recall, President Hinckley seemed to enjoy the verbal reactions to his announcements (I still remember what happened when he announced the Las Vegas Temple...). Obviously you don't want things to get raucous but if you're that concerned about it, why not simply disseminate that information via press release? Just askin'.....
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

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mom3
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by mom3 » 14 Apr 2019, 14:50

Not so much a talk but I thought President Nelson's concluding remarks a bit odd. His instructions to the congregation at the Conference Center regarding reactions to temple announcements just seemed a bit harsh. I'm not sure what is wrong with a few expressions of joy or surprise breaking up the (in my opinion) overly stage managed meeting that is General Conference. As I recall, President Hinckley seemed to enjoy the verbal reactions to his announcements (I still remember what happened when he announced the Las Vegas Temple...). Obviously you don't want things to get raucous but if you're that concerned about it, why not simply disseminate that information via press release? Just askin'.....

I am with you Gerald!!!. I think one of the reasons it was easy to love President Hinckley was that warmth he let us have. He even made cracks and gestures to help initiate it. Joseph Smith would have loved the enthusiasm. Brigham Young instructed the Saints to dance every evening, to be "joyful". I myself was "meh" about the temples. Some of them take so long to fulfill that it looses it's excitement - but I don't begrudge anyone who was excited. We preach temples till it's cliche - a moment of "Singing and Shouting" with the "Armies of Heaven" wouldn't be amiss.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by Curt Sunshine » 14 Apr 2019, 15:15

I think Pres. Nelson sees GC meetings as worship services (perhaps as sacred as Sacrament Meeting), so he doesn't like shouts "disrupting" the spirit of the meetings. I think in his mind laughter at a joke is one thing; I think he sees shouting, even in joy, as different.

I disagree, but it is what it is in this case.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Minyan Man
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by Minyan Man » 14 Apr 2019, 17:49

There maybe a concern that it is similar to a sporting event? Or, choosing sides in a competition.
I'm ready to boo, we don't have a temple in our state. One temple closed (3) months this winter because there
was a lack of activity. (Nauvoo)

Has anyone participated in the "Hosanna shout" during a temple dedication? (I know this isn't the same thing.)
I did at the Washington DC temple. It was an interesting experience.

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nibbler
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by nibbler » 14 Apr 2019, 18:32

Minyan Man wrote:
14 Apr 2019, 17:49
Has anyone participated in the "Hosanna shout" during a temple dedication? (I know this isn't the same thing.)
I did at the Washington DC temple. It was an interesting experience.
Yes, I have... and that's an interesting subject. We often conceptualize reverence as being dead silent, yet during a temple dedication, something I assume is supposed to be one of the most reverent events (due to the rarity if nothing else), and we're instructed to shout. Kinda weird when we're instructed to suppress emotional reactions in most scenarios, then instructed to produce an emotional reaction on cue.

Ah, introversion in the church.

Story time. When I was in a YSA ward I was the SS president. Being a YSA ward, the chapel got fairly raucous when SM was over. I remember the big stick in my craw at the time was maintaining the spirit for the start of SS. I'd bring the "problem" up during every ward council.

Now, all these years later I may be on the dead opposite side of the fence. :crazy: Coming together to interact with others... isn't that the purpose of church? I can stay at home and be all stoic, silent, and broody over my religion. But with Holland's talk and Nelson's talk... public brood-idity it is. :thumbdown:

And this coming from a guy that ducks out of meetings immediately after the closing prayer. I'm not big on church socializing, but I'm glad it happens.
It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words, "And this too, shall pass away." How much it expresses! How chastening in the hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!
― Abraham Lincoln

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Gerald
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by Gerald » 15 Apr 2019, 05:12

I think Pres. Nelson sees GC meetings as worship services (perhaps as sacred as Sacrament Meeting), so he doesn't like shouts "disrupting" the spirit of the meetings. I think in his mind laughter at a joke is one thing; I think he sees shouting, even in joy, as different.
Curt, I'm sure you're right. And President Nelson certainly has the right to impose whatever standard of behavior that he feels is appropriate. But I worry about trickle down effects. I don't think our leaders (at all levels) sometimes realize the influence they can have. President Nelson shushes the audience and now leaders of the same mind may demand silence from their congregations as well but not just during announcements but throughout the meeting (perhaps focusing on the crying children that are always present in many wards). Now, I recognize that this is not that likely to happen (except in a few extreme cases) but the "law of unintended and unexpected consequences" hovers over all our decisions.
Has anyone participated in the "Hosanna shout" during a temple dedication? (I know this isn't the same thing.)
I did at the Washington DC temple. It was an interesting experience.
I have quite a few times. I found it weird...not because of the shout but because of how stilted and unnatural it is. Same thing, why not allow (at the appropriate time) cheers of joy at the dedication? I can't see the early Saints awkwardly flipping their white handkerchiefs back and forth at the dedication of the Kirtland Temple (or at any of the other early temples). I know I'm off topic (sorry) but when did expressions of joy become so formalized in our Church?
So through the dusk of dead, blank-legended And unremunerative years we search to get where life begins, and still we groan because we do not find the living spark where no spark ever was; and thus we die, still searching, like poor old astronomers who totter off to bed and go to sleep, to dream of untriangulated stars.
---Edwin Arlington Robinson---

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by Curt Sunshine » 15 Apr 2019, 14:27

I understand and agree, Gerald.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mom3
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Re: Conference Favorite - Not Favorite

Post by mom3 » 16 Apr 2019, 15:31

But I worry about trickle down effects. I don't think our leaders (at all levels) sometimes realize the influence they can have. President Nelson shushes the audience and now leaders of the same mind may demand silence from their congregations as well but not just during announcements but throughout the meeting (perhaps focusing on the crying children that are always present in many wards)
It does happen.

Elder Bednar stood up an revoked and apostolic blessing he had given during a Stake Conference because the congregation at the end of the meeting were too loud.

I had a former SP who loved to build upon something. Anything. His favorite was to grant minuscule budgets to wards. Then send the remaining back to Salt Lake to be used "to build the Kingdom".

Elder Holland commented on flip flops in GC a decade or more ago. Suddenly any girl who showed up in them got a mention, or eye roll.

I love reverence, for reverence sake. I also know (and stated it in RS this past week) for many members Sunday is the only time we see our church friends. (Hint - I don't live in Utah.) We aren't throwing parties. We are "ministering" - "greeting each other with a kiss (nudge,etc.)".

My Jesus would be doing this. Heck his chapel was on a rock, boat, beach, desert.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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