The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
AmyJ
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Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by AmyJ » 11 Feb 2019, 13:21

dande48 wrote:
11 Feb 2019, 13:01
But there's no way to regulate the "home Church" program. :) Heck, they're going to try. I'm sure they'll bring it up in the PPI (if they can ever figure out how to catch me). But it's not like Home Teaching, ministering, genealogy, or temple attendance. There's no good metric. Comparisons are going to be very difficult, and that's one of the larger "sins" holding us back.
I don't really have PPI's - I think the closest I have is ministering interviews supposedly quarterly. My husband HATES staying for meetings, so I don't even try to set up a meeting with the R.S. 1st counselor (who I report to). I send her an email every month or so with what contact(s) I made and a general status report. She makes general announcements regarding setting up ministering companionship interviews, but whenever she asks me about it, I explain that I can't stay after church and that I am happy to keep emailing her.

My Branch President is busy raising his family and doing the branch functions he has to run - but while he has a good understanding of where I am testimony-wise, his actions were to a) show how I am not apostate (by the handbook definition), b) keep an eye out for a good calling I can grow in. The conversation was much more in depth than that, but he is supportive overall - even made sure that I knew that as far as he was concerned, I could still take the sacrament if I felt worthy to otherwise....

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mom3
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Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by mom3 » 11 Feb 2019, 16:06

DJ - I imagined my ward to be like that. I think what happened is the "Old Guard" had been hanging out in Genealogy Classes and the High Priest Group. When we removed those classes - Ta Da - Suddenly they were accessible. None of them are shy. They make BRM proud. My husband said they slaughtered Uchtdorf's lesson in PH.


Nibbler
What's negative to me, the we're number one and judging others stuff, is often presented as something positive at church and standing against those things is seen as negative. It's wearing.
Right now that ^^ is an understatement.

Our RS lesson was Dallin Oaks GC "Truth and The Plan" talk. It was full of "We're Number One and Judging Others". We had the privilege of listening to the whole d*&# thing. Only stopping it long enough for comments like, "The Proclamation on the Family. So ahead of it's time" and "People searching the internet, then leaving".

I couldn't hold my tongue any longer, when the conversation turned to bashing all the other church's. I tried as tactfully as I could to state "that we need to value them, too. That we wouldn't be here with out them. And they are light years ahead of us in many areas, such as humanitarian service." The response I got was, "That is true. But we have the Priesthood." Like that makes it all better.

Oaks covered every offense imagineable. It was a treat. Gay people, inactives, faith fail-ers, information vs. knowledge. Balanced of course by our amazing humanitarian generosity and yellow t-shirt moments.

For the time being I am going to stick to first hour meeting and hall monitor for the rest.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by Roy » 11 Feb 2019, 17:08

mom3 wrote:
11 Feb 2019, 16:06
"That is true. But we have the Priesthood."
Many years ago we did a segment on commercials in a middle school class. There were some examples of how to make your product seem better without it necessarily being better. It was an eye opener for me. One example involved creating a trademark for an ingredient that is common to the product. Thus you can say, "Our product with "SuperRevolvers" performs better than our competitors' products without "SuperRevolvers"". That statement is functionally equivalent to "Our car with Wheels performs better than our competitors' cars without Wheels!" :lol:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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mom3
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Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by mom3 » 11 Feb 2019, 19:58

"Our car with Wheels performs better than our competitors' cars without Wheels!"
That's us.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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SilentDawning
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Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by SilentDawning » 11 Feb 2019, 23:24

It sounds like a local problem to me also. In our Ward, things have been better. I feel more motivated to go to church because it's only 2 hours. It flies by. I am finding our Bishop is holding socials after church where I got to know a couple people who have been in the ward for years, and who are really talented. I only got to know them as a result of the changes, it seems.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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AmyJ
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Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by AmyJ » 12 Feb 2019, 06:48

mom3 wrote:
11 Feb 2019, 16:06
Our RS lesson was Dallin Oaks GC "Truth and The Plan" talk. It was full of "We're Number One and Judging Others". We had the privilege of listening to the whole d*&# thing. Only stopping it long enough for comments like, "The Proclamation on the Family. So ahead of it's time" and "People searching the internet, then leaving".

I couldn't hold my tongue any longer, when the conversation turned to bashing all the other church's. I tried as tactfully as I could to state "that we need to value them, too. That we wouldn't be here with out them. And they are light years ahead of us in many areas, such as humanitarian service." The response I got was, "That is true. But we have the Priesthood." Like that makes it all better.

Oaks covered every offense imagineable. It was a treat. Gay people, inactives, faith fail-ers, information vs. knowledge. Balanced of course by our amazing humanitarian generosity and yellow t-shirt moments.

For the time being I am going to stick to first hour meeting and hall monitor for the rest.
This is a reason why I have been volunteering to teach R.S. for the last few months. [That and we had some really crappy teachers assigned.]
As the teacher, I can control the focus, and redirect as necessary so that all sisters are as equally comfortable as possible. I also tend to include a practical solution for every religious solution listed (i.e. pray and/or meditate, or read your scriptures & make sure that you are going to the doctor for checkups and/or taking medicine if necessary). I make it clear that these are a few of what has helped me - and that there might be other courses out there for them...

I don't claim revelation for what I present. I don't not claim revelation for what I present either. I stick to conference talks from the most recent conference that speak to me, and try to set up the classes so that each of the learning processes (audio, visual) is engaged, and that there is quiet time for contemplation. It is becoming a joke but, I usually hand out index cards and pens to the class with the disclosure that I want the sisters to have the resources available to write down something important if something important shows up. I also send my lesson plan to my mom for review - to make sure that I am protecting my back and not missing something important. She was recently released from being in their R.S. presidency, but I felt that her input was important to making sure I was staying on the path I needed to be to most assist my sisters with the lesson (even from my fluctuating belief stance). She LOVES my lessons, and forwarded them onto their ward's Relief Society teachers actually....
Last edited by AmyJ on 12 Feb 2019, 15:01, edited 1 time in total.

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by Roy » 12 Feb 2019, 09:53

That is great Amy. Your lessons sound like a good bridge of unity for all the women there.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
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Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by Curt Sunshine » 12 Feb 2019, 15:45

We have a very accepting ward, overall, and Bishop, specifically - and I teach Gospel Doctrine right now. Therefore, my comments would be biased heavily by those factors.

Having said that, I prefer the new format to the old one. It gives flexible teachers more flexibility to focus on elements they feel are inspiring and avoid "those" passages and stories. Of course, the flip side is true, as well, for more orthodox or hardline teachers.

Teacher roulette is as real as leadership roulette.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SamBee
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Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by SamBee » 12 Feb 2019, 18:42

Our YSA hold a social in third hour now which I'm glad about. I gather it's going well.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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DarkJedi
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Re: The New Sunday Stuff and Me

Post by DarkJedi » 13 Feb 2019, 06:36

mom3 wrote:
11 Feb 2019, 16:06
DJ - I imagined my ward to be like that. I think what happened is the "Old Guard" had been hanging out in Genealogy Classes and the High Priest Group. When we removed those classes - Ta Da - Suddenly they were accessible. None of them are shy. They make BRM proud. My husband said they slaughtered Uchtdorf's lesson in PH.


Nibbler
What's negative to me, the we're number one and judging others stuff, is often presented as something positive at church and standing against those things is seen as negative. It's wearing.
Right now that ^^ is an understatement.

Our RS lesson was Dallin Oaks GC "Truth and The Plan" talk. It was full of "We're Number One and Judging Others". We had the privilege of listening to the whole d*&# thing. Only stopping it long enough for comments like, "The Proclamation on the Family. So ahead of it's time" and "People searching the internet, then leaving".

I couldn't hold my tongue any longer, when the conversation turned to bashing all the other church's. I tried as tactfully as I could to state "that we need to value them, too. That we wouldn't be here with out them. And they are light years ahead of us in many areas, such as humanitarian service." The response I got was, "That is true. But we have the Priesthood." Like that makes it all better.

Oaks covered every offense imagineable. It was a treat. Gay people, inactives, faith fail-ers, information vs. knowledge. Balanced of course by our amazing humanitarian generosity and yellow t-shirt moments.

For the time being I am going to stick to first hour meeting and hall monitor for the rest.
Our ward is far from perfect, but we do have enough open minded folks who are also willing to speak up and we have a very accepting, loving, laid back bishop (whose time is about up). In the three hour block, there were more people in the hall or chapel second hour than there were in SS. A couple old ladies would hang out in the FH center, but most people avoided there because one of them is on the brash side. The Old Guard attended GD, which is what kept some people out of there - there were so few in there that the Old Guard dominated (and the teacher was Old Guard himself). (We did get a new younger, more open minded and more tech savvy teacher at the very end of last year.) A couple people attended gospel essentials (or whatever it was called) even though there sometimes wasn't anybody taking lessons or new there - that class was frequently cancelled and they ended up with the rest of us foyer rats. The foyer/chapel group included the bishop (often flagged down for someone looking for welfare or some crisis) and his wife, so he was not one to shoo everyone off to SS.

So the big difference I see in my own ward is that almost everybody goes to SS now, but because of the size of the group there is little opportunity for participation. Everyone, including the Old Guard, is stymied. This does reflect on the teacher a bit, but she is trying. Truth is, I'm more fine with it than I originally was. My educator background was getting in the way as I kept thinking about the need/value in participation, but then I recognized that participation in this case is not always good and that perhaps this is more like a college lecture hall class (I went to a small college and a lecture hall class for us was 50-75 students - probably similar to what we have in GD now). On those days when the whole thing is going differently than I would otherwise hope, I'll either continue doing what I'm doing on the back row or I'll just slip out. The likelihood of getting a word in edgewise with any meaningful input is slim as the class is currently constituted.

PH is a whole different animal. The group is much smaller, we're in a smaller (but ample/comfy) room and I know I have allies there. We are still a minority but we are by no means oppressed (it helps that the allies are all intelligent, have some street cred, and many of us have been in the ward for decades). In all honestly it has not changed except it is every other week and I mostly like it.

I have noticed that it does seem easier for some people to make it one hour church now. People who used to sort of hang out second hour and then come to third hour are now often gone after SM. Good for them, and more power to them. We need to not overlook or forget the "home centered" part which is actually emphasized. If DW wasn't a Primary teacher I'd probably do the same more often. And I've noticed one other thing, and this seems to be stakewide here - SM attendance is up.

(Edited for clarity)
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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