Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
User avatar
mom3
Posts: 3956
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by mom3 » 02 Jan 2019, 19:56

I am ready for drive through endowments.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

User avatar
Heber13
Posts: 7099
Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 16:37
Location: In the Middle

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by Heber13 » 02 Jan 2019, 20:16

mom3 wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 19:56
I am ready for drive through endowments.
:clap:

These seem like good changes and support my feelings that anything at church can change when leaders feel there is a good need for it to happen. They don't bow to activist groups or culture...but they do open their minds to common sense and spiritual impressions of good changes that are helpful. I'm not sure they know where the inspiration comes from, but I'm sure they believe it is of God when it feels right to them.

I like these changes.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Roadrunner
Posts: 886
Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 15:17

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by Roadrunner » 02 Jan 2019, 22:42

This list makes me happy. Huge step in the right direction, kudos to the Q15 and other GAs. I think changes for those putting them into effect can be among the most difficult - to some extent they have to consider that what they previously created and administered needed improvement.

I’ve been visiting Salt Lake City all week and I’ve heard a few people talking and speculating. They are all orthodox faithful members. I don’t think these will shake many people.

DoubtingTom
Posts: 268
Joined: 22 Mar 2017, 12:13

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by DoubtingTom » 03 Jan 2019, 09:44

These are clearly positive changes towards a more comfortable and egalitarian ceremony. I imagine only those who hold to a view where the endowment is a literal revelation divinely revealed in exactness and not to be altered would have a problem. Those who know much about the history of the endowment know this isn’t the case and that it’s changed many times throughout history, including changes to make it a more comfortable experience for participants. Those who separate the presentation of the endowment from the endowment itself will have even less of a problem. I think most temple going members will see these changes as revelation and be grateful for them.

I applaud these changes and hope it is just another step towards full female participation including priesthood and all church positions eventually being open to include calling females. One can dream...

User avatar
Reuben
Posts: 465
Joined: 05 Nov 2016, 10:04

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by Reuben » 03 Jan 2019, 11:40

The changes to make the ordinances nearly gender-equal are great. Unqualified, full-stop.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if President Oaks is behind them. He's been an advocate for such things in the past. For example, he was the apostle who said his mother was the presiding authority in his home after his father passed.

Now, after that gushing, I have an idea. The First Presidency isn't going to apologize, admit wrongdoing, admit to causing harm, admit to causing pain, or even acknowledge pain (probably). But that last thing - acknowledging pain - might finally be something faithful nuanced members can do publicly. These changes happened for a reason. Every revelation in the D&C has a reason. Mormons love to speculate on the reasons when they're unknown. When the speculation starts, saying "Maybe they empathized with women for whom the temple experience was painful and took it to the Lord" could create space for them to talk about it.
My intro

Love before dogma. Truth before loyalty. Knowledge before certainty.

User avatar
mom3
Posts: 3956
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by mom3 » 03 Jan 2019, 14:42

I wouldn't be at all surprised if President Oaks is behind them
Good reminder Reuben.

My connection to Elder Oaks is a bit rocky right now. I let his issues with gay people cloud his other areas that I might share support in.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
Posts: 5640
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Massive Changes to the Temple Endowment

Post by Roy » 03 Jan 2019, 17:18

Roy wrote:
02 Jan 2019, 16:49
Nibbler, There is also the difference in language in the sealing ceremony where the bride gives herself to the husband whereas the husband receives the bride (a vestige of a cultural tradition where wives were viewed as a form of property and polygamy).
I am reading that this unequal language in the sealing ceremony may have already been changed!!!
Without going into detail, I understand that these changes include:
A simplification of ritual clothing and how it is used
A shorter overall length to the ceremony, with some repetitive language eliminated or changed
A different temple movie that is primarily composed of still shots with narration rather than a live action film
Gender equality in the language of the sealing ceremony, where the bride and groom now apparently make the same promises to each other
https://religionnews.com/2019/01/03/maj ... for-women/
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Post Reply