Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
User avatar
mom3
Posts: 4003
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by mom3 » 28 Oct 2018, 21:57

"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

User avatar
BeJoyful
Posts: 44
Joined: 03 Jan 2018, 08:37

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by BeJoyful » 28 Oct 2018, 22:12


Edit: I just watched the video- it was beautiful and well done!

I am a new Mama Dragon. My son came out to us a few months ago, and a friend told me about the group.

My son coming out was huge in connection with my church involvement. My last real reason to stay- a good place to raise families- became my first strong reason to leave. Our records are still there, but we aren't anymore. His life depended on it.

I've been meaning to write a post here about it, but I'm not ready to say goodbye to this forum, even though I'm saying goodbye to the church. This forum has been a really good resource for me in talking to friends and family, helping me sort out my thoughts, and see new perspectives.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk





AmyJ
Posts: 925
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by AmyJ » 29 Oct 2018, 05:41

I am glad that you have found sources of strength (including us).

With my additional needs daughter - I wonder about staying a lot. The rules and routines are good for her (mostly), and it is good that she has a place to practice forming connections to people. But she does not fit in with the rest of the girls, and our family doesn't really fit in either. However. I take comfort that Queen Esther didn't exactly fit in either - and that she had the belief that she acted on that she was where she was "for such a time as this".

I personally don't see why you have to move on (but that is just me wanting you to stay). I think that Staying LDS is equally a matter of the mind and heart as it is a technicality.

Roy
Posts: 5807
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by Roy » 29 Oct 2018, 10:14

I watched the video and it was wonderful. It was interesting to see how these women reconciled belonging to the LDS church and that the church leadership could be wrong about this thing. They are turning their pain into advocacy and service to others. That is a wonderful thing.
BeJoyful wrote:
28 Oct 2018, 22:12
My son coming out was huge in connection with my church involvement. My last real reason to stay- a good place to raise families- became my first strong reason to leave. Our records are still there, but we aren't anymore. His life depended on it.
I believe that the primary benefits of religion are community, purpose, belonging, and meaning. Unfortunately, those benefits can be weoponized against those that do not fit in (especially in the sexuality, marriage, and family department). Exclusion, adrift, out of place, feeling like a mistake, without "root or branch" in mortality or eternity can be soul destroying. I fully respect your decision to do what is best for your son. I do not know your situation and that of your extended family. I hope that you and your son still have the support and belonging of extended family even without church involvement.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

User avatar
BeJoyful
Posts: 44
Joined: 03 Jan 2018, 08:37

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by BeJoyful » 29 Oct 2018, 17:29

Mama Dragons has been amazing at helping families and mothers specifically navigate supporting their queer kids, no matter the existing relationship with the church. They are doing holy work- and absolutely saving lives.
AmyJ wrote:
29 Oct 2018, 05:41
I personally don't see why you have to move on (but that is just me wanting you to stay). I think that Staying LDS is equally a matter of the mind and heart as it is a technicality.
First, you're one of my favorite people on the forum- I stalk your posts! *fangirl*

I think that when asked what religion I am, I would answer, "I grew up Mormon, but now we aren't religious." Since my last few posts, my belief system has changed pretty drastically, due to a lot of discussions with my husband, meditation, prayer, and study. The past 6 months I've only been attending church to support my family, continue faith traditions, participate in community, etc. I don't feel LDS anymore in mind or heart. However, I feel like being part of this forum has continued benefits, including associating with lovely folks like yourselves :)
Roy wrote:
29 Oct 2018, 10:14
I believe that the primary benefits of religion are community, purpose, belonging, and meaning. Unfortunately, those benefits can be weoponized against those that do not fit in (especially in the sexuality, marriage, and family department). Exclusion, adrift, out of place, feeling like a mistake, without "root or branch" in mortality or eternity can be soul destroying. I fully respect your decision to do what is best for your son. I do not know your situation and that of your extended family. I hope that you and your son still have the support and belonging of extended family even without church involvement.
Thank you so much for your support and respect! (and you are one of my favorite people on the forum, as well- I geek out anytime one of my favorites interacts with me!)
I agree with your list of benefits. As a family and as individuals, we've found many of those benefits outside of church in different organizations and activities. My oldest eats, breathes, and lives musical theater, trains search and rescue dogs with my husband, and is heavily involved in school organizations as well as LGBTQ groups in the community. He hasn't believed in church teachings for a few years, but has been a good sport spending time with us in our faith tradition up until this point, despite feeling outcast and being a target for unkind and ignorant remarks from LDS youth.

Our decision to "step back" has been so healthy for as a family and as individuals. I especially think it helped strengthen our relationship with our oldest when he is at his most vulnerable. Out of our 4 kids, only 1 was even slightly disappointed about us leaving (our newest baptized, social butterfly, cries when she misses school kid). I had a pretty frank and loving talk about the reasons we decided to leave- and while she doesn't know about her brother's orientation yet, she was dismayed that nontraditional families don't have equal standing in all churches, and horrified that our church was one of them. Everyone seems delighted that church has been replaced by acts of service, family bike rides, and spending time in the sunshine.

AmyJ
Posts: 925
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by AmyJ » 30 Oct 2018, 05:15

BeJoyful wrote:
29 Oct 2018, 17:29
First, you're one of my favorite people on the forum- I stalk your posts! *fangirl*
Aw Shucks - Thank you:)
BeJoyful wrote:
29 Oct 2018, 17:29
I think that when asked what religion I am, I would answer, "I grew up Mormon, but now we aren't religious." Since my last few posts, my belief system has changed pretty drastically, due to a lot of discussions with my husband, meditation, prayer, and study. The past 6 months I've only been attending church to support my family, continue faith traditions, participate in community, etc. I don't feel LDS anymore in mind or heart.
I still identify as "Mormon" because it is my heritage. My father joined in high school, waited until he was 18 to get baptized, and served a mission to Scotland when he was 19. He met and started dating my mother within a year of getting home from his mission. My dad baptized my mom (who was investigating the church prior to them meeting), and they waited a year to marry in the temple. Their example of sheer grit and stubbornness in following the right path for them I admire greatly (and try to live up to in my own way).

It was very awkward for me for months to drag my 2 girls to church barely (and I mean barely) believing in God - let alone the specific LDS traditions associated with LDS doctrine. It was even harder on me because my husband could not come (he is the more believing of the 2 of us) so I got to experience the executive functioning challenges with less of an emotional payoff. There are Sundays I went because I believe that Richard Rohr is right - LDS people tend to do "first stage of life pretty well" - and I wanted them to have a first stage of life foundation - and that was the best I could do with the resources I had. In addition, there is a lovely sister who adores it when we sit next to her - she needs grandchilden to adopt, and I need someone to sit with, to hug me, and help contain the toddler.
BeJoyful wrote:
29 Oct 2018, 17:29
Our decision to "step back" has been so healthy for as a family and as individuals. I especially think it helped strengthen our relationship with our oldest when he is at his most vulnerable. Out of our 4 kids, only 1 was even slightly disappointed about us leaving (our newest baptized, social butterfly, cries when she misses school kid). I had a pretty frank and loving talk about the reasons we decided to leave- and while she doesn't know about her brother's orientation yet, she was dismayed that nontraditional families don't have equal standing in all churches, and horrified that our church was one of them. Everyone seems delighted that church has been replaced by acts of service, family bike rides, and spending time in the sunshine.
My husband and I step back as well sometimes. One of the best Sundays this past summer, we ditched church and went about 1 hour north to a botanical garden. We pigged out on pizza on the way there, and had a good family experience wandering around (when not encountering crowds).

User avatar
BeJoyful
Posts: 44
Joined: 03 Jan 2018, 08:37

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by BeJoyful » 30 Oct 2018, 05:33


AmyJ wrote: In addition, there is a lovely sister who adores it when we sit next to her - she needs grandchilden to adopt, and I need someone to sit with, to hug me, and help contain the toddler.
We had this experience at the beginning of my FC, with the addition that she was at the time investigating. She was there every Sunday, which made leaving much harder till we moved away- and I admire her faith and conviction, especially after a lifetime of experience, difficult family, etc. She's been baptized since, and is very active.

I admire you going when it would be so difficult, and I definitely see the reasons to stay. That's what led me here in the first place!

With my son, leaving was important for us. My family has a strong history of suicidality, with a few completed incidents. I grew up knowing the word, the warning signs, and the emergency procedure for suicidality from a young age- too young. Mixing that mental health genetics with a difficult culture is too scary for us.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


AmyJ
Posts: 925
Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by AmyJ » 30 Oct 2018, 07:48

I hear ya.

We stay so far because 3 of the 4 of us are introverts, and the social cost of finding a new "tribe" is too much to pay right now. Especially when including the backlash from DH - whose philosophy is "if we are at church, we are at our church". I am thinking of branching out and going to an additional Christmas Christian celebration, but I don't know if we will, or if I will complete all the negociations and executive functioning tasks to make it happen.

My 8.75 year old daughter and I are both self/parent diagnosed Aspies - so having a social network we can plug into easily is a good thing. I avoided a lot of pitfalls in life because I practiced the clean living standards of the church as a teenager.
On the other hand, our branch is small, and kids can be mean. So far, the other girls are not deliberately mean to my daughter - but as far as I can tell, my daughter is too "weird"/"immature" for forming flourishing friendships with other kids.

Roy
Posts: 5807
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by Roy » 30 Oct 2018, 10:21

The Mama dragons certainly seem to be doing the job of the metaphorical "good Samaritan".

Ironic that the "injured traveler" that they are ministering to is our own children.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

User avatar
dande48
Posts: 1443
Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: Mama Dragons Story - 13 min video

Post by dande48 » 30 Oct 2018, 11:28

Taking a larger perspective, I think the LDS Church is a very difficult place for all those who are "different". I think most imagine the Church to be a "one-size-fits-all" solution, but sometimes it just isn't a good fit for meeting certain needs of certain demographics. We focus a lot on how this is the "one and only true Church", but I think this causes us to avoid questioning whether or not the Church organization is actually helping us. Most struggles just get reflected back onto the individual.

I hope this isn't too "irreligious" of me to say, but I believe religion (and "God") is a reflection of what we need it to be, rather than an objective truth of what actually is. What's funny is, I think most people "need" to believe their religion is an objective truth. It makes it hard to accept those who believe differently than we do, because our held "objective truth" is very different from their "objective truth". But for myself, I am grateful to live in a religiously diverse world. I wouldn't have it any other way.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Post Reply