The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

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AmyJ
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Joined: 27 Jul 2017, 05:50

Re: The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

Post by AmyJ » 18 May 2018, 07:00

In that situation, I would have probably said something like this after the yelling started...

"I am thankful that we have modern technology which makes some of these conflicts of time and resources easier to resolve by email or by Skype. I am also thankful for the gift of the Holy Ghost that helps me decide the best use of the resources and talents I have in terms of serving my family, fulfilling my career obligations, and serving in the church." <Duck down to avoid invisible rotten tomatoes>

However, it might not have helped the situation any better than any other choice available.

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SilentDawning
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Re: The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

Post by SilentDawning » 18 May 2018, 19:46

Speak up on non-doctrinal issues that are backed up with lds theology or little known GA talks....judgmentalism is a good one.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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Stephies
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Re: The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

Post by Stephies » 19 May 2018, 05:25

I'm not sure how I will act in priesthood-meetings and such, but I'll try my hardest to "speak up" with respect to the orthodoxy. A few days ago someone posted a long quote from RMN in our wards facebook group. He quoted some passage in the Book of Mormon where Jesus says "those who do not follow my commandments will never come to heaven" or something like that. I didn't read RMNs speech or listen to it, but I replied anyway.

I pointed out that there are "contradicting" verses in the Bible, in Romans, for example. But I ALSO pointed out that the Bible has some parables which pretty clearly says "some people do not go to heaven", and I finished it all with saying "I'm not saying RMN is wrong, and I don't have any "answers" on this "issue". I just want to "raise a thought" :) "

I think that would be my approach on things such as this. Because in reality, I try to "conform" to the group. I try to be "agreeable" because I'm afraid of conflict ... but simply saying nothing, feels like it'll do little benefit in the long run. The people who will dislike me for having differing opinions are probably not my friends anyway. If me "saying what I think" leads to "disciplinary action" ("warnings") I'd have to reconsider my approach, but... Eh.

I haven't been to church for months (95% sure I'm going tomorrow though, for the first time in a long time)... But from what I remember, I found the priesthood meetings where people "disagreed" to be more interesting than when everyone just sat there and nodded for 45 min. Our quorum president did try his best to make people "say what they think", but I think many people have a hard time saying what they think. The Church is definitely "authoritarian" in many ways (which is both a good and bad thing), which probably encourages "yes-sir" behaviour and discourages discussion.

The problem with "yes-sir"-behaviour on a large scale is that we'll never develop as a group. We'll just stick to our old ways, because everyone is too afraid of "getting kicked out". On doctrinal issues this might be a bit complex, but the behaviour seems to exist even when it comes to non-doctrinal things. I remember some discussion regarding home-teaching (or whatever it's called nowadays). Some people had some very good ideas on how to make the system better (not "as a whole" but rather how we did things locally), but there was a lot of conservatism in the group as well. But I guess that's how every group works. There's the progressive people and there's the conservative people. Everyone is needed in the greater scheme of things, because the conservative person and the progressive person complements each other. At least... if they are able to "negotiate", or if there are people "in the middle" who can negotiate.

Feels like I de-railed a lot now but... Eh. It's a tough topic. I'm more inclined to stay silent than to say anything in class situations, but I'll try my best to open my mouth more often... Because I do think I have good things to say. But I guess that's easy for me to say now, perhaps not so easy to do tomorrow... :lol:

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Rumin8
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Re: The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

Post by Rumin8 » 20 May 2018, 22:10

Early on in the ward I’m in (over 10 years ago), our EQ quorum had some very spirited discussions. Lots of back and forth. Tempers were not held in check at all times. I didn’t realize how rare and special that was until later when I realized that I attend EQ about 1x a month at most, and that when I do it’s usually the same regurgitated conference talks or discourses from the lives of prophets... read a section and discuss. Zzzzzzzzzz

Meanwhile I hear from my wife about how great the RS lessons are. Maybe there is a disconnect between how guys and gals teach and interact with each other, but it probably has more to do with my more cynical attitude versus her more open, simple, and great full faith.

I’m cautiously optimistic that the combined EQ will improve things, but it can’t last. Either way, I’m generally pretty aloof when it comes to discussions. I’ll have them with small intimate groups of people I trust, but not with the rank and file members in EQ. It’s not that I’m afraid, per se, but rather I don’t see the point. At least in large groups.
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Be excellent to each other." - Abraham Lincoln to Bill & Ted

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SamBee
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Re: The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

Post by SamBee » 21 May 2018, 02:54

The women here tend to do more cooking, socializing, craft activities etc. Some of them even go on cruises together.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Mr. Sneelock
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Joined: 19 Sep 2017, 08:06

Re: The whens, wheres, and whys of speaking up at church

Post by Mr. Sneelock » 22 May 2018, 11:30

I can really relate to your conundrum Nibbler. This Sunday I was sitting in Elders Quorum debating with myself whether I should speak up and comment during a lesson about how the prophet will never lead us astray and the grave consequences of disobeying the prophet. The instructor even used the Haun's Mill massacre as an example of what happens when people don't heed the prophet's counsel. I ended up staying quiet because I'm intimidated by the new Elders Quorum full of seasoned High Priests.

One of my biggest motivations for wanting to speak up is when I look around the room during a lesson and wonder who else is withering away inside. I want them to know that they are not alone and that the Church is for us too.
. . . beauty for ashes . . .

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