dande48 wrote: ↑
04 May 2018, 16:50
SamBee wrote: ↑
04 May 2018, 15:35
The Roman Catholics like to claim the early Christian fathers, but anyone before the 600s barely qualifies as such. They never had the level of central control or influence, priests could marry, most of the contemporary monastic movements or the likes of the Jesuits were long into the future.
Isn't that like saying early Church leaders weren't really Latter-day Saints? All churches evolve. But even still, I don't think your arguments are accurate.
-Bishops, Priests, and all clerics were barred from marriage in 305AD.
-St. Anthony established monasticism for the Church in 305AD.
-The Nicean Creed was made in 325AD.
-Augustine himself established the doctrine of "Original Sin".
-There was a central authority, the Pope, Father Victor I. Many creeds and councils were established to decide on doctrine, including the Synod of Hippo, which canonized our modern bible.
Still, define them how you will, the pregenitors of Catholics, who identified as Catholics, under what they held to be Catholic authority, and led by the Pope Father Victor, decided what would be considered canon and what wouldn't.
Priests and monks were marrying far later than that even in the west - and surnames reflect that e.g. Abbott, MacNab, Haggarty etc. In Eastern areas which would later separate in the Schism, they've always been able to marry.
The Pope was often ignored until the Middle Ages. The Crusades consolidated their control but even that was not total.
Also you'll note I say *contemporary* monastic orders. Not those of the first millenium but the Franciscans, Dominicans and Augustinians.
A lot of distinctly RC doctrine is of surprisingly recent origin or approval e.g. the idea of the immaculate conception of Mary, which underpins Mariolotary, was only rubber stamped in the 1850s, well.after the Reformation and after the foundation of the LDS! Much of contemporary Roman Catholicism is influenced by the Reformation which forced the church of Rome to a) try and put its house in order and b) maintain better control.
The current LDS bears little resemblence to the church of Joseph or even Brigham.
The successor who most resembled Joseph Smith was Strang not Young, but still Young was much closer to JS than the current church. Think of all the other major differences - the lack of new revealed works or mysticism, no Gathering to Zion, gerontocracy, monogamy, correlation, incorporation into the mainstream etc. Early Mormonism lived on the edge, modern Mormonism wants desperately to be mainstream.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."