Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Bobdecker
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Joined: 30 Apr 2018, 07:17

Re: Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Post by Bobdecker » 01 May 2018, 14:08

FINALLY!! I can’t tell you how incredibly great I feel right now. THANK YOU SO MUCH!! Just simply finding a forum of people going through similar things and being able to talk about this sort of thing is so incredibly relieving. I have been depressed and crushed over the past few years by not having anyone to talk to about these things. I can’t even talk to my closest of friends about this. About a year ago I wanted so bad to talk to someone about it that I called my old Sunday school teacher who had left the church, and went out to lunch with him. I asked him to lunch for one reason, to find out how he is dealing with everyone knowing he no longer believes. I just couldn’t get myself to say anything about my faith crisis during lunch. It’s so good to find this forum to FINALLY be able to talk freely.

Everyone's advice is fantastic but I am still unsure what to do. Im sure time will tell but right now Im not ready for anyone to know how I believe or don’t believe. I have been able to attend and participate in church without going crazy for the last few years by thinking that even if its not completely true, that it can’t hurt to participate in ordinances. There are so many good things that come from families raised with all the ethics and community. I have played along this long and am thinking at the stage I’m in now, I should continue to play along by getting my recommend and taking my son through the temple in a few weeks. Im not 100% about this. I could be choosing this path because it seems the easiest and wont hurt my marriage either.

It is not appropriate to share personal financials but being an anonymous forum I will tell you this to understand and offer advice. My bishop knows my financial situation too well. He lives a few doors down. He and I both invest and we have done a few large business deals together last year. He knows I make way too much money a year and I have more than most in investments and assets. My wife sat down with him in tithing settlement in December without me and told him I was not going to pay any tithing last year. Im not sure what she said to him but she spent about an hour in tithing settlement and came home crying. So, if I go sit down with my bishop now, he knows I didn’t pay last year, and he knows that I do have the funds to pay it all. I think he will expect that if I truly believe, I will pay it all. My bishop doesn't know that I have tried to donate the full 10% to other charities, but I have only given to the LDS church through the humanitarian fund, Fast offerings, and scouting last year. I just cannot simply hand the bishop a few thousand dollars for a month of tithing and get a temple recommend in exchange. I know that it is awful to buy a temple recommend just so my son wont have to question his/my beliefs or think his dad must be a sinner. So to wrap up this thought, I don’t think I can get myself to pay the expected amount of tithing to build more temples. I would be only be comfortable donating more to the humanitarian fund, scouting, YM YW programs, fast offerings, and perpetual education fund. I don’t have any problem donating to other good and charitable things that the church does for others. Could I tell the bishop I’m a full “tithe” payer if I donate to the other funds and not tithing?

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mom3
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Post by mom3 » 01 May 2018, 14:25

Yeah - You may have to make a choice. I am so sorry. If it were me, I would tell my son first. He needs to know. As to your friend the Bishop, I don't know. These crisis are the worst on so many levels. Again, I am sorry.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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dande48
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016, 16:35
Location: Wherever there is danger

Re: Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Post by dande48 » 01 May 2018, 15:22

In my book you are a full tithe payer. You are giving a full 10% to God, according to your conscience. Will the Bishop see it that way? Maybe not. But when the question comes up, you can answer with a resounding yes. If you can honestly tell him you've prayed about it, and recieved a strong confirmation that's what God would have you do, there is no way he can argue it. If the Bishop pushes further, you can tell him that's between you and the Lord.

But that's the least challenging part of the Temple Recommend, I think. Although, it sounds like you might be good friends with your Bishop. I wouldn't normally recommend this (far from it), but the "leadership roulette" might be in your favor. Have you considered being 100% open and honest with your bishop about your situation? Most Bishop's wouldn't understand, but if your close you might be able to convince him you are acting on what faith you have; even though you have differing beliefs, you're doing all you can to follow God "according to the dictates of [your] own consience" (see article of faith 11), and that the love of your son is why you want to be with him for his endowments. Who knows, he might give you a temple recommend anyways? Or if not, he might give some good advice on what to do. Or... it could all blow up in your face (hey, I'm just some guy on the internet ;)). But at least then, everyone will know where you stand.

I wish you all the best, Bob. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

Roy
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Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Post by Roy » 02 May 2018, 09:20

I have a few similarities to your situation.

I have not paid tithing since my faith crisis.
For me, I had believed too strongly that tithing was being exchanged for blessings. I felt betrayed and misled first by God - than later by church members that had made promises for God that He might never have intended.

I am financially better off than many. I certainly cannot make any sort of claim that I cannot afford tithing.

I do not have a TR. I am working hard to be available for my children's milestones. I was able to baptize my children. I confirmed one and my FIL confirmed the other. I plan to ordain my son in a few years. My interactions with the bishop are geared to help make that happen.

My children know that we do not accept without question everything that is spoken at church. I have especially tried to counter program the looking down at non-church members for not living church standards (WoW, modesty, use of OMG, etc.). I suppose I present to them a non-traditional but still positive faith. My children pay tithing and they assume that I do too.

I do not plan to get a TR to attend my children's possible endowments sessions or temple sealings. I figure that by then my children will be older, more mature, and more able to understand that I love and support them even though I cannot be there with them.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Rumin8
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Joined: 25 Mar 2018, 14:00

Re: Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Post by Rumin8 » 04 May 2018, 12:34

Bobdecker,

I’m in a similar situation. My son will be ordained an elder and go through the temple within the next few weeks. He will leave for his mission this summer. I’ve had to work through some mental gymnastics to get on board with him serving a mission for a church I no longer, and maybe never, believed in. That said, my resolution is similar to yours; I can think of nothing better for him to do other than to get out of the house on his own for two years. I did the same thing. I’d never want to do it again, but I’m very glad I have my mission experience. But not for the church reasons. It’s because it made me a man, and I learned to care for others above myself.

It’s fascinating how we all have different issues. I’m pretty good with tithing (but certainly not 10% of gross). Watching the church build lavish temples, malls, and huge office buildings while we have giant holes in our parking lot and the members do all the janitorial is making this much harder to justify. My biggest issues are that I’m not great with WoW or core belief in the church. I have a current TR, but it is likely my last one. Up to now I have been able to morally (to me) navigate the TR questions. With my WoW lapses increasing and core “church” belief and attendance decreasing, I don’t think I can continue with a TR. This will be a problem with my wife. When I first vocalized my faith crisis to her (some years ago), she asked me to promise to always have a TR. I agreed in order to give her some hope to cling to. This was a mistake. She is aware of some, but not all of my WoW issues. She doesn’t like or understand this part of me very much. She thinks it’s stupid to start “all this” in my 40s. She doesn’t realize that I’m finally acting on things I’ve suppressed MY WHOLE LIFE. When we’ve talked about it, she says no one can answer the TR questions 100% perfectly, since we are all far from perfect. She will not be happy with a no TR husband.

All that said, my goal is to get my son on his mission. Whatever that takes. Including going through the temple, which I’ve successfully avoided for many years. I will do this for my son, even though it is among one of the last things I would like to do. The whole thing is bizarre, weird and uncomfortable. Just thinking about it creeps me out.

It’s time for another conversation with my wife. I don’t like the secrets. I’m not asking her to condone what I’m doing, and I’m not going to ask her to follow me, but we have to reach a new equilibrium. We will have to discuss what and how to tell the kids (if anything).

Back to you Bob... if you know and trust your bishop, why not ask him what it will take to get your TR? I understand this is leadership roulette, but if you have a good relationship with him, maybe it will be favorable. In my circumstances, I will NEVER discuss ANY of my issues with leadership, but you’re in a tighter spot than me with fewer options. You either have to do what it takes to get a TR, and hope you can do that in time, or you have to accept that you will not be a part of your sons mission prep (along with telling him why).

I earnestly wish you the best of luck, and would love to hear what you end up doing.
"Moderation in all things, especially moderation." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Be excellent to each other." - Abraham Lincoln to Bill & Ted

NightSG
Posts: 330
Joined: 09 Feb 2015, 09:35

Re: Kids don't know, oldest to go through the temple before mission. HELP!

Post by NightSG » 06 May 2018, 19:19

Rumin8 wrote:
04 May 2018, 12:34
Watching the church build lavish temples, malls, and huge office buildings while we have giant holes in our parking lot and the members do all the janitorial is making this much harder to justify. My biggest issues are that I’m not great with WoW or core belief in the church.
Well, next F&T Sunday, have something worked up in the style of Ron White, and give it just the way he would.

Image

That should settle all their concerns.

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