Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 15:15

AmyJ wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 05:36
There are messages I like at church. I like the teachings that every child is a child of God with innate worth and potential, so I focus on that. When my daughter was baptized last year, I focused the combined Baptism/Holy Ghost talk on joining the community of saints and having a gift tailored to her individual needs in life.

To counter the sexism in the church, I guess I try to use the tools that I internalize myself to teach her about her role.
Thanks, AmyJ. There are definitely messages at church that I like, too. I love your baptism talk focus and the examples you gave of talking things through with your daughter. Do you point out the sexism in the church to her specifically?

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 15:24

dande48 wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 06:01
For example, all young women are strongly encouraged (almost coerced) into getting a college education, serving as full-time missionaries, and working for a period after.
Dande48, I'm intrigued by this. Are you referring to in the church or outside of it? I can see that being true outside of the church, but I very much had the opposite experience in the church (and I graduated from BYU less than a decade ago.)

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dande48
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by dande48 » 02 May 2018, 16:07

Only Love wrote:
02 May 2018, 15:24
Dande48, I'm intrigued by this. Are you referring to in the church or outside of it? I can see that being true outside of the church, but I very much had the opposite experience in the church (and I graduated from BYU less than a decade ago.)
Both, I guess, though I'm sure it varies from person to person. Since the change in the age requirement for Sister Missionaries, it's become almost a rite of passage for most young sisters. With college and career, there's a sharper division. If a girl gets married at BYU, she'll be ridiculed for "only going to get married". I heard choosing to be a stay at home mother, called "domestic slavery", and not having a career as being lazy. "She just stays home plays with her kid all day. Can't she at least get a night job?". That's another one I heard (from another sister, not her husband, BTW). My parents just recently made my sister swear she'd finish her college education. She's getting married soon, and they're afriad she's going to drop out.

It's common, I think, for people to insist that their values and life choices be applied to everyone; and look down on those who choose differently. "She couldn't possibly really want _____!". "She'll regret ______ when she's older...". I think it's wrong that anyone should tell a young lady what to do or who to be, or judge her for her choices. I feel like both modern feminism and traditionalists often act like the US millitary, who point their guns at those who live differently and say "Be free, or well shoot you!"
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by hawkgrrrl » 02 May 2018, 18:10

I couldn't agree more with what Curt said. The church needs feminists IN it, not out of it. Women in the church need us, and men in the church need us. And if they don't like it, they can step over my dead body to uphold their antiquated sexist notions because that's what it will take. I will not be silent and complicit.

Heber13 said:
Both daughters have great guys they found at BYU. I'm happy they went there. Both daughters dated nonmembers before marriage. For sure the guys they found to marry are way better than anyone else they dated. I'm happy for them that they could make such great choices.
This was my experience on the whole with dating non-LDS guys. The church is sexist in one way, and those guys were sexist in another way. There are good guys in both places, for sure, but as Roy pointed out, the percentage of men changing diapers is higher inside the church than outside it. I'd bet on that. The sexism we see and hear is mostly because the old farts are the only ones with the mic, and they still live in a world that ceased to exist around 1959--and thank God it did.

I think the key to your question is that YOU are raising your daughters, not the church. The church is just a backdrop, but the messages your daughters get about their self-worth and their goals in life come from your example and your values.

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 18:12

Heber13 wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 09:14
Do you feel you are sexist to your wife because you hold the priesthood?
No, because I'm a woman :lol:
Heber13 wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 09:14
Both my daughters are married to fine priesthood holders that love and support them 100%.
Thankfully, I have the same blessing in my life. In fact, my husband has always been more open to my following whatever life path (such as working outside the home vs staying home with the kids) I want than I am!
Heber13 wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 09:14
my daughter NEVER feels the sexism in the church and frankly doesn't understand women who do (because she hasn't experienced it from me growing up in our home, or the guys she has dated). That is her experience so far and she is naive to many issues, and I think sexism in the church bothers me more than her...
I was actually the same way until I hit my faith crisis.

I think you are right that there are many, many great men in the church. In fact I think often (though not always) men are better for having been raised in the church. It is mostly institutional sexism that concerns me.

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 18:20

Roy wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 12:55
Yes, I told DD that the holy ghost was the divine spark within her that will guide her into who she is to become. Her parents know only in part, her teachers know only in part, she herself may know only in part but the HG knows God's unique plans for her and he will prompt her in key moments. I feel that this interpretation is doctrinally sound. More importantly, I want DD to learn to trust her internal compass.
I love that!
Roy wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 12:55
Hawkgrrrl has written something to the effect that even though the church hierarchy remains highly closed to women, the majority of LDS marriages seem to be remarkably cooperative, respectful, and egalitarian. I seem to remember her speculating that the churches focus on family can make men more helpful in childrearing (changing diapers and otherwise co-parenting). Of course there are no guarantees, but there is something to be said for the church grooming YM to become better than average marriage partners.
I think there is a lot of truth to that. It's the institutional sexism that concerns me. But you are right, I need to remember this.

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 18:23

Roy wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 13:47
Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?
For myself, I believe it is important to provide a counter to the hyper-sexually charged messages that my children receive in the school/media world they breath. Some of my daughter's school friends wear heavy makeup and have boyfriends at 12. I anticipate that boyfriends will eventually pressure girlfriends into some form of sexual relationship (isn't that the point of being boyfriend/girlfriend).

I do not want my daughter to "drink the Kool-Aid" at church. Nor do I want her to accept without challenge the messages that she gets from her peer group, the media, and other sources.

I hope to provide her with several examples of life patterns to help her understand that she is not limited to just one.
Yes, yes, and yes! I'm realizing more and more that what I missed in my life growing up was a balance... a realization that not everything in the church was "true" and perfect and that I could make decisions for myself even if they were different from the pathway laid out for me by the church. I hope with my daughters I can teach them to borrow the good from the church and the good from elsewhere.

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 18:25

SilentDawning wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 07:34

Neutralize the effects. Share how the church is changing to be more gender friendly. Even if it's not enough.

Neutralize the "stay home and have babies" forever message, and teach the boys about non-sexist behavior at church and in the world.
Thanks, SilentDawning. I'm starting to realize maybe I can have more of an influence than I thought.

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 18:32

Roadrunner wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 09:41
I have one 18 year daughter who is a senior in high school and a 20 year old who is sophomore at Arizona State University. My answer is a "qualified yes" that it's worth it raising daughters in the church. There are considerable negatives such as rampant sexism and misogyny but it's getting better, and is not that bad and even progressive in pockets of the church. The YW leaders in my ward are excellent role models - about 75% of the leaders are highly successful professionals such as a professor at a major college, pharmacist, college basketball coach. Only one is a stay at home mom - my wife.
I'm a stay-at-home mom right now, too. I think it is great for my kids to see multiple options... I hope that they will know they can choose whatever they (and God) feel is best for them. Do you feel like the "rampant sexism and misogyny" in the church were a big stumbling block for your daughters? How did you help to neutralize that?

Only Love
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Re: Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

Post by Only Love » 02 May 2018, 18:35

Curt Sunshine wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 20:21
Yes, because strong, independent, feminists are needed.

The Church is stronger because my four daughters are in it.
Love that :clap:

How do/did you counter the sexism in the institution and encourage them to be a force for good?

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