Urgent Request for Input

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Curt Sunshine
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Urgent Request for Input

Post by Curt Sunshine » 20 Apr 2018, 18:26

Everyone, I am in a Master of Counseling program at a non-LDS university and, for a class project, am developing a Faith Crisis Group Counseling proposal. It will be targeted specifically at LDS participants, with a note that it can be altered, where necessary, to fit other religions or denominations.

I just had the idea to base each of the six required sessions on a scriptural verse or LDS Church leader quote. The session focal points are:

1) a general introduction to Fowler's Stages of Faith;

2) understanding common crisis categories (historical, doctrinal, cultural, social, etc.);

3) understanding Stage 4 (particularly as a gateway to Stage 5 or entrenchment in Stage 3);

4) faith crisis coping skills;

5) navigating interpersonal tension caused by changed or differing faith constructs;

6) redefining "perfection" and "Zion".

So far, I have chosen the verse and quote for Session 1 (Elder Wirthlin's quote from "Concern for the One" about valuing all the instruments in God's divine orchestra), Session 5 (Moses 4:18 & 1 Corinthians 8:13), and Session 6 (Matthew 5:48 as "whole, complete, fully developed"). What I need are verse and quote suggestions for the other three sessions.

If you see this today through Sunday (4/218 - 4/20), I would appreciate any input you would like to give.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mom3
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by mom3 » 20 Apr 2018, 19:29

I like it a lot. Do you want quote references or do you have those ready. (Read your post slowly). Will work on it.

One thing I know is that lots of religions are having the Faith Transition Experience. Though boards like this are nice, having person to person assistance can heal things so much better.

Run with it.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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DarkJedi
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by DarkJedi » 20 Apr 2018, 21:03

I like it a lot too, and I do think it would work for other churches - I know of Catholics and Jews who have had faith crises/transitions.

Right off the top of my head, I'd say "Come Join With US" (Uchtdorf) for number 4. For me it made all the difference. I have some pondering time this weekend, so I'll think on this a bot more. BTW, I quoted extensively from that Wirthlin talk this past Sunday.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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mom3
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by mom3 » 20 Apr 2018, 21:10

For me Mother Teresa comes to mind. In a way she had a faith crisis with lack of support from the church. I don't have a direct quote, but I remember reading her book and her letters were plea's for The Church to buoy her up, help her, send support (whether in written form or with actual hands/money).

I also think some type of reference or quote to keeping spirituality. I will keep thinking and looking.

I am with DJ on the Uchtdorf talk - it really was/is a supreme piece on inclusion.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

nibbler
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by nibbler » 21 Apr 2018, 06:44

2 & 3) St. Mark Chapters 11:27 through 13:3.

I know it's a lot (more than just a verse or two), but look at what Jesus is doing in those chapters. He doesn't appear to be too pleased with the doctrines, culture, or society. He's shining a light on dogma in an effort to make it collapse on its own weight. He's clearly had it outs with religious authority.

Also worth noting, in the Mark narrative Jesus leaves the temple never to return to it. The temple has lost its charm with Jesus (if it ever had it to begin with, hard to tell), he prophecies the destruction of the temple (Mark13:2) and makes the mount of Olives his new "temple."

In more recent history:
Dalai Lama wrote:This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.
John chapter 8 is another example. The story's climax at the end of the chapter:
John 8:58-59 wrote:Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Verse 58 is pretty powerful and if applied more broadly (to everyone, not just Jesus) it's one of the hallmark's of stage 4. Finding your internal voice of authority. I no longer need you to speak for god, I am god. You can tell it struck a chord with the leaders, Jesus had to peace out to avoid a stoning.

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mom3
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by mom3 » 21 Apr 2018, 10:37

Paul's Body of Christ letter. Where ever we go, whomever we are we all belong to the body of Christ. Even unbelievers
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Curt Sunshine
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by Curt Sunshine » 21 Apr 2018, 15:39

Thanks, everyone. I am getting there.

If you think of anything else, let me know.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by SilentDawning » 21 Apr 2018, 19:00

Sorry I missed it. Quite frankly, I find Fowler's Stages of faith so academic they aren't a lot of use to practitioners -- unless you wordsmith them to be accessible to the average person.

I would consider using a different model.

Session 3: For the classification of faith crises, I would consider using a quote from Uchdorfts "it's not that simple" talk. Where he indicates that faith crises is not as simple as people make it out to be. then go into non-sin related categories you have.

For the faith crisis coping skills, I would again use the "doubt your doubts and not your faith" as a starter quote. While this sounds like you are asking them to simply have faith (something that often no longer works for people in faith crisis), exposing our fallibility as human beings to detect truths about the next world given the fact it is hidden from us puts the LDS religion back on the same playing field as other religions. I have found that doubting my doubts (and questioning my own ability to detect truth) has a) stopped me from going to name-removal, and b) helped me expect less from the LDS church. It drives a number of coping behaviors.

Understanding Stage 4 -- that is hard. I would be inclined to draw on non-church sources for that one. We don't like to talk about people in Stage 4 in our church. Head in the sand. I am hard pressed to see how you can get a quote that doesn't ooze TBM attitudes, which often don't work with people in faith crises.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

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Roy
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by Roy » 22 Apr 2018, 09:56

for # 4, I like "Lord I believe, help my unbelief" along with the concept that a small amount of faith can do amazing good even when accompanied by a large amount of doubt. Tiny faith - is greater than - large doubt
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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mom3
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Re: Urgent Request for Input

Post by mom3 » 22 Apr 2018, 11:25

Uchtdorf's recent "Behold the Man" has good stuff, too.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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