Who & what to believe

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Posts: 27
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 17:02

Who & what to believe

Post by Rebel » 07 Apr 2018, 09:16

To piggy back off a couple of different threads about the creation and literal or symbolic belief I am having a hard time figuring out who and what to believe as in the broken trust issue from another thread. As I approach the end of my year in waiting to return to the church (still not sure if I want to my wife wants me to ) I have red the book unveiling grace by Lynn Wilder and have watched many you tube videos of Lee Baker. I did read planted last week. Just So much confusing messages !!!!!! For me on my own I don't really think I would return to church or at least the lds church. Patrick Masons book was very good but when all is said and done you still must decide which camp to join !! Lynn Wilder and Lee Baker make good points about why the Lds should not be trusted / sorry about the long rant just confused/upset over it all. Thanks . God Bless to all.

Minyan Man
Posts: 1890
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by Minyan Man » 07 Apr 2018, 18:48

Rebel wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 09:16
....you still must decide which camp to join !!
Or, there are other options, start your own camp or join with us.
I remember getting to this stage & deciding to follow my own inspiration. Wherever it comes from.
There are really many options. Discover for yourself what they are. Talk with close friends & family.
Then accept what works & leave the rest without regrets. In the process there maybe some pain but,
you can get through it. I hope that makes sense. (If it doesn't, leave it behind without regrets.)

User avatar
Posts: 4408
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by nibbler » 07 Apr 2018, 19:00

I'm not trying to be dense, it comes naturally ;)

What are the two camps?
To get the full value of joy you must have someone to divide it with.
― Mark Twain

User avatar
Posts: 4077
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by mom3 » 07 Apr 2018, 20:22

Returning to church isn't a black or white issue. Many people here find ways to still engage with the church because of family. I am not saying you should. Only that it can be done.

Eventually you will need to define for your heart who you are and what works for you. That may take more than a year.

I am with Nibbler - I am not sure what the 2 camps are.

If you have anymore insight, I would love to read it.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Posts: 6030
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 14:16
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by Roy » 08 Apr 2018, 11:38

I suppose I am at a place where I figure we can't prove anything in regards to religion. It is likely all in the category of creation myths and oral traditions.

Therefore any benefits to living a religion must be derived in the here and now. No sackcloth and ashes dreaming of my mansion above for me.

With the LDS faith there are definite benefits AND there are some costs. Because I am no longer motivated by eternal promises I am not willing to invest as much time and effort as in times past. I try to live what I feel to be a sustainable balance to prevent me from burnout and hostility towards the church. This required boundaries and being able to say "no" without being offensive.

Finally, to answer the question "what to believe". I say that you should search your heart to discover what you believe naturally. Which beliefs sing to your soul and resonate with you? It can be disorienting to start taking ownership of your own beliefs but I believe that this is a necessary step.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16778
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by Curt Sunshine » 08 Apr 2018, 18:33

I believe what I believe. Period.

I have faith in things I don't / can't know but want to believe. Period.

I believe in the Book of Mormon concept of being an agent unto myself - and that God will judge me solely on if I tried to live according to the dictates of my own conscience. That is a uniquely Mormon concept within Christianity, except true universalism, and I love it.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
On Own Now
Posts: 1745
Joined: 18 Jan 2012, 12:45

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by On Own Now » 10 Apr 2018, 07:46

What we believe is much less important than what we believe in.
- - -
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” ― Carl Jung
- - -
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." ― Romans 14:13
- - -

User avatar
Holy Cow
Posts: 310
Joined: 10 Nov 2014, 17:07
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by Holy Cow » 10 Apr 2018, 19:51

Curt Sunshine wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 18:33
I believe what I believe. Period.
I would echo this. If you're having a hard time figuring out what to believe, because so many of the things you read have conflicting arguments, my suggestion would be to stop reading, and stop trying to figure out what other people are telling you to believe, and invest some time into figuring out what YOU believe. Completely independent of what you've been told to believe. Everything you read is going to have a bias one way or another. Every author has a bias, no matter how hard they try not to. Let others believe what they want to believe, while you decide what you believe.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God
according to the dictates of our own conscience,
and allow all men the same privilege,
let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Do we really claim that privilege for ourselves, and extend it to others? Worship according to the dictates of your own conscience.
My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6139

Posts: 27
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 17:02

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by Rebel » 11 Apr 2018, 09:34

Thanks to all that replied so far from what I am reading is that you can have beliefs that are independent of the Lds church but still fit inside the frame so to speak . can anyone else help with this strategy ? Rebel.

User avatar
Posts: 283
Joined: 21 Jan 2015, 23:30
Location: SoCal

Re: Who & what to believe

Post by LDS_Scoutmaster » 11 Apr 2018, 12:06

That's a good question and a lot of people on the site are looking for just that. What I found so far is ways to deal with having slightly different beliefs then what I would consider average Mormons. Questions and answers on here have helped me and how to deal and talk with people within and without of the church. Especially when you talk with the leaders who you may not want to open up too much information about.
I first got rid of some of the labels that I was labeling with myself with cafeteria Mormon, apostate, unbelieving, New Order Mormon, whatever you want to call it these labels can pigeonhole you.
Be yourself with your own beliefs and find ways to deal with the nuances.
I can say that the church is true, without going into details on what I believe true means.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6311&start=70#p121051 My last talk

We are all imperfect beings, dealing with other imperfect beings, and we're doing it imperfectly.

Post Reply