Place of Women in the Church

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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mom3
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Place of Women in the Church

Post by mom3 » 06 Feb 2018, 14:42

https://bycommonconsent.com/2018/02/06/ ... is-church/

If you have influence - please read and use your influence.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

nibbler
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Re: Place of Women in the Church

Post by nibbler » 06 Feb 2018, 14:46

mom3 wrote:
06 Feb 2018, 14:42
If you have influence - please read and use your influence.
...

...

What the heck, I'll read it anyway. ;)

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mom3
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: Place of Women in the Church

Post by mom3 » 06 Feb 2018, 15:14

What the heck, I'll read it anyway.
No, don't. You are the exception.

I mean exceptional. ;).
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Roy
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Re: Place of Women in the Church

Post by Roy » 07 Feb 2018, 10:12

This is a very frustrating topic for me. There are hardwired and systematically very few places for women in the church to lead. On the other hand those women that are deepest enmeshed in the church likely find parts of their identity and support structure in defending the status quo.
If we want our daughters to stick around, we have got to do the work of taking them seriously.
For my own daughter this is a delicate balancing act. We try to prepare her for the stiflingly sexist attitudes she may encounter at YW and yet we ask her not to rock the boat - to bring her concerns home and we can talk about them. We do not want our daughter accepting wholesale subliminal and/or explicit messages about her place in the church but we do want her to be welcomed, accepted, and fellowshipped by the other young women. Rock the boat too much and you get tossed overboard.

I cannot say if my daughter will stay in the church long term. Honestly, I am just trying to get her into adulthood as stable, well rounded, and with as much of a support network as possible.

Perhaps one small success that I have had in this area is in referring to the auxiliary presidents as President (Last Name). This does tend to make women uncomfortable. I have been asked to call them by their name but I have explained that I am using the formal title in order to highlight women in leadership role models for my daughter.

I have also asked that we not use the word modest in our home when it comes to being critical of DD's clothing choices. I hope whatever we have to communicate can be expressed without resorting to the blanket statement "that is not modest."
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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dande48
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Re: Place of Women in the Church

Post by dande48 » 07 Feb 2018, 10:24

My first thought looking at the title was, "Heck, I don't know my own place in the Church".
Roy wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 10:12
On the other hand those women that are deepest enmeshed in the church likely find parts of their identity and support structure in defending the status quo.
I think this is a large problem for all members of the Church, men included. Excepting a few top-tier positions, I feel the general stance of the Church is "Agree or Apostasy". The leadership seems largely to be given to those in strong support of the status-quo. Any deviations get called out and shut down pretty quick, unless you're 75+, when most members will simply roll their eyes and ignore you.
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
-Lemony Snicket

AmyJ
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Re: Place of Women in the Church

Post by AmyJ » 07 Feb 2018, 10:38

dande48 wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 10:24
I think this is a large problem for all members of the Church, men included. Excepting a few top-tier positions, I feel the general stance of the Church is "Agree or Apostasy". The leadership seems largely to be given to those in strong support of the status-quo. Any deviations get called out and shut down pretty quick, unless you're 75+, when most members will simply roll their eyes and ignore you.
It can be painful at times being an accidental deviation. I managed it in the past by believing that my deviance (if respectful) was what the situation needed, or else why had God placed me in that position (or allowed myself to place myself in that position).

Now I am learning how to be a stubborn, deliberate, respectful deviation provided to those in the world around me to provide color and contrast. Of course, this is when they realize they are in the presence of a deviation (I do try to conceal myself in self-defense).
Last edited by AmyJ on 08 Feb 2018, 06:21, edited 1 time in total.

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LookingHard
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Re: Place of Women in the Church

Post by LookingHard » 07 Feb 2018, 16:55

Roy wrote:
07 Feb 2018, 10:12
Perhaps one small success that I have had in this area is in referring to the auxiliary presidents as President (Last Name). This does tend to make women uncomfortable. I have been asked to call them by their name but I have explained that I am using the formal title in order to highlight women in leadership role models for my daughter.
I have done that also for a few years and the reaction is ALWAYS with the sister squirming a bit being called "President". I tell them that when I am talking to them on something because they are the president of the RS/YW/Primary I will address them as President partially to respect them and their calling, but also so they know I am talking business. When I am just chatting with them I will call them by their first name (or Sister xyz if I don't know them well).

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