How do we deal with politicians?

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SamBee
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How do we deal with politicians?

Post by SamBee » 02 Jan 2018, 15:53

Without going into too many details, we have a politician in our ranks. He isn't a very prominent one, but he is an elected representative and has a habit of dragging his politics into the church, much of it under the pretense it is not political.

While I sustain him as a leader of the church, I don't agree with his party at all on any of the major issues.

It is annoying when I try and leave my politics at the door, but other members do not. Certain political tendencies seem to take their ideas as read and as apolitical, but I don't see them that way within the church at all.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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dande48
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by dande48 » 02 Jan 2018, 20:29

Politics is a lot like religion. It's deeply personal, people aren't going to be persuaded through logic, and the harder you fight them, the stronger they'll resist. It's all likely the politican cannot differentiate the two. Most people can't, and as politics consumes most of his life... well, you're not going to have much luck I think, getting him to leave politics at the door.

I think we'd have to cope with it as well as anyone else we strongly disagree with at Church. Distract ourselves with our phones...
"The whole world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole

"Even though there are no ways of knowing for sure, there are ways of knowing for pretty sure."
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SamBee
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by SamBee » 03 Jan 2018, 03:18

dande48 wrote:
02 Jan 2018, 20:29

I think we'd have to cope with it as well as anyone else we strongly disagree with at Church. Distract ourselves with our phones...
The trouble is that the man is fairly high up the chain, and his decisions to hold certain events and do certain things are fairly unavoidable. We had a major ward event last year and I was squirming in my seat, because the entire cultural hall had been decorated in a political way - hard to explain without going into specifics. It was extremely uncomfortable. Other politicians from other parties were supposed to turn up but they didn't and I can't help but tbinking what they would have thought if they saw this.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Heber13
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by Heber13 » 03 Jan 2018, 10:49

SamBee wrote:
03 Jan 2018, 03:18
The trouble is that the man is fairly high up the chain, and his decisions to hold certain events and do certain things are fairly unavoidable.
If he is higher up...I would think expressing concerns for this to a more lower level direct leader, like bishop, is a good way to have your concerns expressed.

In theory...I think all church leaders know they 2 should not be mixed together...church and politics. In practice...you see variations of it. But that doesn't make it right.

Because we hold leadership callings sacred and the priesthood so tied to humility and service and not coercion or power in our doctrine (See D&C 121:41)...there may be different interpretations or opinions on how that is practiced but the principle cannot be argued.

If you have concerns...it is valid to express them to leaders and I think they would express up through Stake Leaders about warning against pressuring people.

In my area...many years ago...we had some local leader in politics start beating the drums to get members out to do their civic duty and vote for primaries for Republican primaries that were coming up...calling for cancellation of youth activities and all other church meetings so all members could go to the primary polls...and we expressed concerns it was too much...because they didn't do that for Democratic primaries or other things...and someone talked to that leader to tone it down...and remember everyone votes their conscience...not beating the drum for one party or another...and he backed off quickly not realizing he was crossing a line.

I think they are sensitive to it in church...but don't know when they cross the line. It is part of sustaining leaders to give that feedback so they know how you feel...then you have to deal with it after giving your feedback.

The two just shouldn't get mixed up.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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SamBee
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by SamBee » 03 Jan 2018, 11:01

That's fair enough.

We had a guy from a different political background say from the pulpit to get out and vote. Which I think was fine, because he was saying we should vote but not who for. I have no problem with that, but perhaps a few anarchists might disagree (I can't imagine LDS anarchists being common!).

I feel the original man I was speaking about has been pushing a certain view of our history through various means and using certain symbols which could be seen as endorsing that.

In the case of the USA, you have two parties which have a chance (I think there should be more, but hey, not my country!)... and I would have thought it would have been better to say to members that they should be involved in the primaries of both those parties.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Heber13
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by Heber13 » 03 Jan 2018, 11:33

SamBee wrote:
03 Jan 2018, 11:01
a few anarchists might disagree (I can't imagine LDS anarchists being common!)
I can't imagine the anarchists getting support from church people...I mean...let others believe what they want and all...but that's not going to be a position the church is going to take.
SamBee wrote:
03 Jan 2018, 11:01
In the case of the USA, you have two parties which have a chance (I think there should be more, but hey, not my country!)
...ya...they keep trying to get Independents or Green party or LIbertarian party...but they never seem to have a chance.
SamBee wrote:
03 Jan 2018, 11:01
I would have thought it would have been better to say to members that they should be involved in the primaries of both those parties.
...I think that message would be accepted. Cancel conflicting church meetings with BOTH party primaries if they are in that area and I think you are good to go...but when you just single out Republicans, and all the Democrats in the ward start raising a hand of objecting...it starts bringing politics in the church too much and people shouldn't have to worry about it.

Like I said...i felt local leaders respected people's rights to have this be anonymous and private on who we will vote for.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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SamBee
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by SamBee » 03 Jan 2018, 11:37

I know that the GOP is dominant amongst LDS, but it seems a bit much complaining about Democrats if church members get to have little or no influence on a party which will take government at least once a generation.

(I'm presuming here only positive influence from church members!)

And it's not as if both Republicans and Democrats haven't had some bad policies and bad candidates.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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Heber13
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by Heber13 » 03 Jan 2018, 11:59

SamBee wrote:
03 Jan 2018, 11:37
it's not as if both Republicans and Democrats haven't had some bad policies and bad candidates.
:think: uh...ya...ain't that the truth!!
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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nibbler
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Re: How do we deal with politicians?

Post by nibbler » 03 Jan 2018, 12:27

Each ward has their own personality. In every one that I've belonged to there were two plans in the preexistence, the Republicans' plan and the Democrats' plan... and they expect everyone that is currently in church to have kept their first estate.
It’s not enough to be against something. You have to be for something better.
– Tony Stark

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