LoveLoud LGBT

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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mormonheretic
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LoveLoud LGBT

Post by mormonheretic » 27 Aug 2017, 20:09

A funny thing happened yesterday. My wife loves concerts. I am much more wishy washy on them. She asked me if I wanted to go to the LoveLoud concert last night. I was aware of it only because I had heard the LDS Church was semi-endorsing it: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... event.html

It was sold out, but my wife managed to get some scalped tickets and we went with my young teenagers. My wife wanted to see Neon Trees & Imagine Dragons. They're ok, but I wasn't sure how much I liked them. I only knew 2 of Neon Trees songs, and 4 of Imagine Dragons, but since my wife wanted to go, I was game. It was a so-so concert, but I enjoy Billy Joel, Journey, Def Leppard, and Sarah McLaughlin much more. (Is that showing my age?)

As we started heading to Orem, she announced to the kids, "Now just so you know, they may say some things at this concert that we don't agree with." I reminded her that the LDS Church endorsed the concert, and that she shouldn't be more restrictive than the church, and I said that "we should be respectful to everyone." She agreed, but was clearly uncomfortable going to a concert in support of gay pride. My wife has similarly made uncomfortable comments about interracial marriage, because of "what it will do to the children", even though her best friend is Asian and married to a white guy. I love my wife but sometimes it makes me a bit uncomfortable when she says things like that. (Of course I make her uncomfortable when I bring up church history, so I guess touche`.)

Anyway, like I said, I'm not a huge concert fan,I'm not really an activist either, and to be honest, wasn't particularly interested in hearing the "commercials" about being proud of our gay brothers and sisters. But I do think we should treat each other well, regardless of race or sexual orientation.

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Beefster
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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by Beefster » 27 Aug 2017, 21:47

I think it is a fantastic cause. Regardless of your own opinion regarding LGBTQ lifestyles and philosophy, these people deserve everyone's respect and love. The suicide rates are serious and I really hope this will at least make a dent in the problem.

The church walks a fine line on these issues and I personally think it does a pretty good job. For example, I see why people are/were upset about the policy on children of LGBT parents, but I can see where the church is coming from. It's a challenging thing to create policies which show love towards everyone while not condoning sin. YMMV on whether it is a sin or not, but the church holds a strict view of it whether or not you agree.

I walk a pretty fine line myself. I'm personally more on the orthodox side when it comes to this issue, but I recognize that a lot of (most?) people here do not feel the same way and I am mindful and respectful of that by withholding my finer opinions.

I have a good friend who left the church and transitioned M->F. I believe God is understanding of her situation and I try hard to give her the respect she deserves. I haven't talked to her in a while. I should change that, especially since I'm in the same city as her once again.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Sometimes our journeys take us to unexpected places. That is a truly beautiful thing.

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mom3
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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by mom3 » 27 Aug 2017, 22:37

Billy Joel, Journey, Def Leppard, and Sarah McLaughlin
MormonHeretic - those are my kind of concerts, too. Living out here in the mission field there was no maybe on going. We couldn't. But I am glad to the church (especially Deseret News) gave verbal support to it. The knot is so tangled. Anytime we can balance the tension I feel like it's a step in a good direction.

Good to see your avatar.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

Curt Sunshine
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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by Curt Sunshine » 28 Aug 2017, 04:40

Supporting the concert openly was a wonderful thing.

I am glad you could go. I wish I could have gone. My daughter would have been ecstatic.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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mormonheretic
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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by mormonheretic » 28 Aug 2017, 13:29

It feels funny to say "thanks mom", but thanks for the kind words! :lol: It's good to see you too!

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mom3
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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by mom3 » 28 Aug 2017, 21:23

Your Welcome - Please show your face more often. I would love it. (you can type some stuff, too.)
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

ydeve
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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by ydeve » 19 Sep 2017, 22:00

Beefster wrote:
27 Aug 2017, 21:47
The church walks a fine line on these issues and I personally think it does a pretty good job. For example, I see why people are/were upset about the policy on children of LGBT parents, but I can see where the church is coming from. It's a challenging thing to create policies which show love towards everyone while not condoning sin. YMMV on whether it is a sin or not, but the church holds a strict view of it whether or not you agree.
I strongly disagree that they do a good job showing love to everyone. It's simply not possible to communicate love to someone while simultaneously communicating intolerance of a fundamental part of who they are. And many of us have had strong spiritual experiences confirming that our sexual orientation is a god-given, fundamental part of our identity that is not sinful.

Actions speak louder than words, and the only things the church has done to "help" lgbt people are just empty words. They receive no revelation to address the doctrinal gaps, they make no room for us in their marriage focused communities, they provide no support or guidance on celibacy; all they do is say to stay single and hang in there. And then make or keep around policies like the PoX, banning lgbt members from ever working with youth (because either we're pedophiles or will corrupt them, take your pick), not allowing us to hold leadership callings, etc.

Holland says that there is room for everyone in the choir, but if by choir he means the church, the only room they've allowed us is pretty similar to the room given to blacks before 1978. For the longest time I hoped and listened for them to communicate love. All I got was kicks and insults followed by admonitions to the general membership to love me in the same way they did. It was excruciating and I didn't want to admit it, but in the end I only found peace when I accepted that there is no place for me here, that I am to walk a different path.

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Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by Beefster » 20 Sep 2017, 17:41

ydeve wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 22:00
I accepted that there is no place for me here, that I am to walk a different path.
I've kinda realized as of late that that tends to be the best course of action for LGBT members. We simply do not offer the necessary support to put our money where our mouth is when it comes to these issues. So we alienate those people instead. It's quite sad.

I don't expect the doctrine to change, however I can tell you that I strongly believe the Lord understands. Whether sexual orientation and gender identity are retained in the hereafter is something I do not have answers to, but in either case, everything will be okay in the end and everyone will be happy with where they end up (which, IMO, is probably far better than they expected).

And even regarding just this life, it's far more important that you live a life that is happy and fulfilling than one that is filled with self-loathing and feelings of inadequacy. Contrary to orthodox belief, this life matters too.

I do not entirely rescind my earlier statement. I legitimately believe the church is trying. Trying, and failing (or perhaps succeeding only marginally?). It's incredibly difficult to reconcile the rigidness of the doctrine with reality in this particular situation. Perhaps they can't be reconciled and the doctrine is therefore false, but that's not something that the FP+Q12 will take lightly. They are understandably cautious.
Boys are governed by rules. Men are governed by principles.

Sometimes our journeys take us to unexpected places. That is a truly beautiful thing.

Curt Sunshine
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Posts: 16069
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: LoveLoud LGBT

Post by Curt Sunshine » 21 Sep 2017, 13:35

There was an "official, church gathering" in SLC very recently to talk about these issues. The attendees included current and former global Church leaders, well-known LGBTQ+ members, activists, Affirmation members and leaders, etc. Seriously, the list was impressive.

The opening prayer was given by a transgender member. Most of the speakers were LGBTQ+. They talked about their own experiences: good, bad, and horrible. They mentioned personal attempts to change, as well as suicidal thoughts. I couldn't attend, but I know a couple of people who did - and they said it was powerful.

The Church is trying, and things are changing. They are changing too slowly, particularly in highly orthodox areas away from the headquarters, but they are changing.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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