Pres. Monson reduction in work

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nibbler
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Re: Prayers for President Monson

Post by nibbler » 23 May 2017, 14:24

ttt

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/p ... son-update
Because of limitations incident to his age, President Monson is no longer attending meetings at the Church offices on a regular basis. He communicates and confers with his counselors on matters as needed. President Monson is grateful that the work of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles continues without interruption. He appreciates the prayers and support of Church members.
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Re: Prayers for President Monson

Post by SamBee » 23 May 2017, 14:31

He was no Gordon B. Hinckley who could sell ice to Eskimo's and Iraqi's. Thomas Monson deserved to have a full out PR campaign
I think you underestimate him. Monson got a temple built in East Germany during the Cold War. Quite an achievement - anyone who could deal with the leaders of East Germany like that, have effectively secret ceremonies in a police state... in which Freemasonry etc were banned that is amazing. I'm not saying it brought down the Berlin Wall but total respect for his negotiation skills.
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DarkJedi
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Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by DarkJedi » 24 May 2017, 03:54

I think this deserves it's own thread, so I moved the relevant posts here (and I didn't lose any! :smile: ).

When Pres. Benson died after a long period of declining health and not being seen in public the church membership was 9 million. Today it approaching 16 million. That means a large portion of the membership are very used to having a prophet at the helm, speaking in GC and clearly in charge (from that point of view). Pres. Hinckley was an exception to the rule of declining health, and had himself been called into the first presidency (as a third councilor) because of the incapacity of Pres. Kimball and his counselors (Romney and Tanner). Prior to that Pres. McKay also had a long period of being incapacitated. I was not around for McKay, but I do remember Kimball and Benson very well, and though Hunter's tenure was relatively short he was also not healthy. I think this announcement, which is more open and forthright than I recall in the past, is good because it admits what most of us figure out to be obvious - incapacitated people don't actually go to meetings and watch GC on television in their apartments (it might be on, but they don't know it).

Two points:
1. In the past when we had incapacitated presidents (the most recent more than 20 years ago) the church continued to run and the membership saw no difference except for speaking by the FP. We sometimes use the term Q15 here, and in reality that's an appropriate term for how it works - the church is not ruled by a dictator who speaks to God on his own, rather it is ruled by committee and any revelation is received collectively.

2. I think the "follow the prophet" rhetoric has ramped up over this 20 year period, and this idea that the prophet might not be really doing the work might shake some. As I said, I appreciate this announcement but I think we still will hear "Pres. Monson was consulted about this decision" whether or not he actually was able to comprehend what he was being consulted about. There are those who will believe that God in some miraculous way helps Pres. Monson to be lucid during those consultations or advisement and I believe that could happen but likely doesn't. I think this will be an interesting period of adjustment for some.
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mom3
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Re: Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by mom3 » 24 May 2017, 04:09

I think you underestimate him. Monson got a temple built in East Germany during the Cold War. Quite an achievement - anyone who could deal with the leaders of East Germany like that, have effectively secret ceremonies in a police state... in which Freemasonry etc were banned that is amazing. I'm not saying it brought down the Berlin Wall but total respect for his negotiation skills.
Oh Sam I agree. His work back then, and one on one, I believe is amazing. But President Hinckley was a public PR guy, in all areas. When he spoke people listened, followed, fell over themselves for him. I remember every General Conference the GA's would rain verbal praise on President Hinckley "Our Beloved...." He even joked it sounded like eulogies.

President Monson doesn't have the same style, nor as a body of saints do we genuflect to him as we did President Hinckley. It's not a slam against Monson. When President Hinckley was put in I hoped his would be a short run so President Monson could get a shot. He is a personal favorite of mine. I believe if he had been younger, and if the church PR system had made more effort (because they do in some areas) his "prophetic mission" of helping the less fortunate would have gotten better support. And we as a church would have been better off for it. Including making space for people with Faith Transitions. It was a massive PR mistake - IMO. We could have been busy "doing good" and side stepped Prop. 8 and more. But louder voices than his got the nod. That isn't his fault.
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SilentDawning
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Re: Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by SilentDawning » 24 May 2017, 05:37

I don't agree with our approach to succession in the presidency. These guys get really really old and unable to function, yet we saddle them with all the responsibilities of running a company with 16 million employees (I'm being tongue in cheek there) right until they pass away. I wish there was a way of letting them leave the presidency voluntarily so THEN, the succession in the presidency can take over to determine who is next.

It's also not fair to the membership to have a prophet at the helm who purportedly speaks for God, and never get to see him in conference, or when he does speak, to see him stammering and stumbling and needing people to prop him up on satellite television. It's sad....
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Re: Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by DarkJedi » 24 May 2017, 05:58

I don't really have a problem with it SD because I recognize that the church is really run by committee and a bureaucracy. I do feel sorry for the old guy, like Hunter, who clearly doesn't have the capacity to be saddled with the perceived responsibility and under normal circumstances would have been retired for many years and be an expert Wheel of Fortune player. Nelson is three years older than Monson, but much more healthy.

I have actually often wondered what the presidency really does all day. They don't travel to stake conferences (although Eyring and Uchtdorf do travel some), there's a machine that signs those hundreds of missionary call letters, etc. They share going to temple dedications, but Monson hasn't done one since 2014 and apostles can (and do) do that. I don't think it actually is like being a CEO. The highlight of the week is probably the Thursday council meeting - and that's sad in a way.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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NightSG
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Re: Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by NightSG » 24 May 2017, 07:09

DarkJedi wrote:
24 May 2017, 05:58
I have actually often wondered what the presidency really does all day.
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On Own Now
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Re: Prayers for President Monson

Post by On Own Now » 24 May 2017, 13:09

He communicates and confers with his counselors on matters as needed.
I'm sad to see this. "On matters as needed" means that he is no longer running the Church. I realize that the FP/Q12 operates as a committee, but with TSM in the room, they would defer to him in all cases, I'm sure. With him not in the room and only being consulted on matters as needed (at the discretion of the FP), then we have moved into a new phase. Will we see any changes? No, I doubt it. But it does mean that TSM's time as an active President of the Church is now in the past.
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

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SilentDawning
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Re: Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by SilentDawning » 24 May 2017, 13:18

Who is the first counselor now == Eyring? So, is he the equivalent of GBH who ran the church years in his president's incapacity?
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"Stage 5 is where you no longer believe the gospel as its literally or traditionally taught. Nonetheless, you find your own way to be active and at peace within it". -- SD

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

My introduction: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1576

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On Own Now
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Re: Pres. Monson reduction in work

Post by On Own Now » 24 May 2017, 13:29

SilentDawning wrote:
24 May 2017, 13:18
Who is the first counselor now == Eyring? So, is he the equivalent of GBH who ran the church years in his president's incapacity?
I wouldn't say he's the equivalent to GBH during SWK presidency, but I would say he's the equivalent of GBH during the ETB presidency. In the former case, GBH was the only member of the FP who was not incapacitated. In the latter case, GBH was First Counselor and TSM was Second Counselor.
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

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