Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

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SilentDawning
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by SilentDawning » 26 Apr 2017, 07:07

Joni wrote:
26 Apr 2017, 03:03
Thanks, everyone. We had the Priesthood Preview last Sunday (there are only two 11-year-old boys in our ward and their birthdays are three weeks apart). The Deacon's quorum president sort of inadvertently made my point for me: he listed about six or eight responsibilities of a deacon, and only one of them involved passing the sacrament. We talked about that on the way home. Arguably, the most important responsibility of a deacon is to stand as a witness of God... which is funny... because my fourteen year old daughter stands up every Sunday and pledges to do that very thing.

I did have to do a little bit of debriefing with DS because several of the speakers mentioned the importance of wearing a white shirt and tie and the church isn't emphasizing that as much (especially since Packer has passed, I think). My own husband who is pretty orthodox has passed the sacrament in a yellow shirt and nobody leapt up to stop him.
My son and I dress in colored shirts. My wife bought him church clothing and they were all colored shirts. I am glad that is changing. We look too much like we belong in the 1950's...Now, we have never participated in any ordinances (sacrament etcetera) dressed that way, although I did ordain my son to the priesthood in a colored shirt.

That's one rule I'd like to see atrophy -- the white shirt rule. Glad those 8 or so responsibilities came to the fore. Even husband with experience in the church can learn something from the deacons!
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DarkJedi
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by DarkJedi » 26 Apr 2017, 07:39

My own ward is very open about the white shirt "rule." We don't have enough young men to do the sacrament (no active priests) so there are always adults. About a third of our men wear colored shirts (I've counted). In my own ward I wear a colored shirt on Sunday, mostly as a way of rebellion. ;) Most Sundays find at least one man or boy dressed in a colored shirt either blessing or passing. We also have a young man sort of on the fringe who regularly wears jeans (but a white shirt, I think it's his only dress shirt) who usually passes when he's there. We have had men without a tie take part.

This story is probably only funny to me: A few weeks ago we were short someone to bless with a couple minutes to go, so someone asked one of the old guard (very orthodox) who was there. He wasn't wearing his usual jacket, but he did have a white shirt. He didn't go right to the table, he left the room. Apparently he decided he needed his jacket to bless and went to his car to get it. When he got back someone else had taken the spot - blue shirt, no jacket. I really did chuckle out loud as he took off his jacket and returned to sitting by his wife.
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Ray DeGraw » 26 Apr 2017, 07:53

There are a lot of colored shirts each week in our ward.

We had a Priest (now a missionary) who occasionally wore a kilt when he blessed the sacrament.
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nibbler
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by nibbler » 26 Apr 2017, 08:33

I use the conference edition of the Ensign to gauge where we're at as a culture on the whole issue of white shirts. Those editions feature pictures of "random" ( ;) ) families showing up for conference. This past general conference edition I counted seven people with non-white shirts but I think two of the seven only looked light blue due to being in shadow.

My ward doesn't make white shirts an issue when passing the sacrament but fewer that 10% of the people in the ward wear non-white shirts.

The last ward I was in (and this was about 2 years ago, not 20) had a white shirt rule for the sacrament. In addition to this, leaders regularly got on to me for not wearing a suit coat. They even offered to buy me one if I couldn't afford one. I've got one, it's from my pre-mission days, it's out of style (like Johnny Carson's suits that had lapels that extended all the way out to the shoulders, but it still fits... kinda, I just didn't feel like wearing it so I never did, despite the warnings.

And you know the quickest way to get me to not wear a suit coat? Act like it's a requirement. You've got to reverse psychology me. Tell me I can't wear a suit coat if you want me to wear one. :P
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kate5
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by kate5 » 26 Apr 2017, 08:39

Wow, it's funny how many of the young men in other wards are allowed to wear colored shirts to pass the Sacrament. The last 2 wards I was in, that was a big no no. My boys, ( who did not like to bless or pass the Sacrament) loved this rule. They just made sure they wore colored shirts every week and they never had to do it.

One time they were really desperate and one of the deacons ran over to my son and asked him to pass, his friend standing next to him said "He can't, he has a grey shirt" and they left.

Another time, they actually did let him pass in a colored shirt. I thanked they Bishop that they overlooked that rule and let him pass the Sacrament. The Bishop looked at me kind of odd like he must not have been paying attention to the color of his shirt. He was never asked to pass the Sacrament again.

Sometimes we act like the Church of the Pharisees . :|

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DarkJedi
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by DarkJedi » 26 Apr 2017, 09:08

Nibbler, that's where my rebellion came from. I used to regularly wear a white shirt. I actually like white shirts. They go with everything. One day there was a talk about wearing a white shirt to church being a sign of our faithfulness and commitment. That's all it took, it's been blue or gray since. (And yes I have participated in administering the sacrament since then.)

Kate, I wholeheartedly agree we can be very Pharisaical sometimes (very often actually). I think some boys in our ward tried the colored short or no tie thing for awhile - colored shirt didn't matter and there are a couple ties in the room with the sink. They seem to avoid it now by just being late (although I recognize that it's not usually them but their families who are late). Sometimes we literally have no AP there at the start of the meeting. Dang uncommitted parents - some of their dads have been spotted wearing colored shirts as well. :shock:
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Reuben
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Reuben » 26 Apr 2017, 09:49

In Handbook 2, section 20.4:
Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.
I brought this up on Sunday when the Young Men's President kept my son from passing.

I think white shirt and tie used to be a requirement, but I don't know when.
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On Own Now
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by On Own Now » 26 Apr 2017, 10:54

JRHolland, Oct 1995 GC, Sunday Morning Session:
May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.

That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament.
I don't like this, myself, because I think it says it's not a requirement, but then it states it in a way that can be viewed as a requirement, "whenever possible". When an Apostle says, "May I suggest..." is that a requirement? Most here will say 'no'. Most members of the Church?

As an aside, let me point out that JRH's statement above says nothing about ties.
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nibbler
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by nibbler » 26 Apr 2017, 12:23

It's the standard trap we often fall into as humans. It's okay not to... but if you're really trying to be reverent and convey the sacred nature of the ordinance you'll do it. No one wants to be terrestrial in their observance, so they try to celestialize it up by putting on that white shirt.

I don't think it's a church thing as much as it's something baked into our nature. We see someone else doing a little more, we don't want to come across as less than, and in time one person's little more becomes the community standard.

If you loved me you'd wear that white shirt. ;)

I do feel the rule relaxing though. I think our local leaders are more concerned that the boys are doing their "responsibility" at all, so it doesn't matter as much what they're wearing. They just want them there doing what they are supposed to be doing.

As we know, all it takes is the right person in the right calling to turn white shirts into an issue. It's nice to be able to cite the handbook but it helps to know the leader beforehand. With some it will be no big deal, with others it may bruise their ego and make them more rigid and set against you.
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DarkJedi
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by DarkJedi » 26 Apr 2017, 14:43

nibbler wrote:
26 Apr 2017, 12:23
I do feel the rule relaxing though. I think our local leaders are more concerned that the boys are doing their "responsibility" at all, so it doesn't matter as much what they're wearing. They just want them there doing what they are supposed to be doing.
Sometimes it's just that they want them there. I think that's the case with the kid in my ward who wears jeans. better he wears jeans there than not being there at all.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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