Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

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Roy
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Roy » 30 May 2017, 13:42

Heber13 wrote:
30 May 2017, 11:54
I mean...you don't need the priesthood to stand next to your son while he passes.
As a complete tangent, one doesn't doctrinally "need" the priesthood to pass the sacrament (only to prepare it). Although church policy is a different story.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Joni
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Joni » 30 May 2017, 14:56

Here's how it actually went down: Son was visibly frustrated/confused. Despite Husband's insistence that he would help, he was on the other side of the chapel from Son. However, there were several other adult men passing the sacrament (we don't have that many deacons) and they helped steer DS in the right direction.

Not sure what the lesson is here? Your dad won't help you, but someone else's dad will? At any rate, I'm grateful for the assistance DS was given, and that was honestly not something I had counted on.

I'm sure that next week DH will insist that DS is fine to pass the sacrament without ANY assistance, since it wasn't a disaster this past Sunday. And if my husband can learn something after doing it once, the kids should be able to, too.

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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Curt Sunshine » 31 May 2017, 00:31

The vast majority of Mormons are very good people at heart.

It is good to read of the care given by those good men.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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Holy Cow
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Holy Cow » 31 May 2017, 07:13

Joni, sorry to hear it didn't go quite as your son had hoped. But, like Ray, I'm glad there were other men there to assist as needed. Since your ward often needs adult men to help pass the sacrament, would your husband be willing to pass the sacrament alongside your son, rather than just standing by his side to guide him? That way he could still help your son out, without standing right next to him the whole time. This seems like an excellent opportunity to serve. As parents, we ask a lot of our kids, but sometimes forget to serve them in the ways they need it most (or at least I'm bad at that). Or, would it help your son if your husband went over to the church with him an hour or so before church starts and walk him through the different passing routes, so your son can get more familiar with the routine without being in front of an 'audience?'
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Heber13
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Heber13 » 31 May 2017, 07:27

Roy wrote:
30 May 2017, 13:42
Heber13 wrote:
30 May 2017, 11:54
I mean...you don't need the priesthood to stand next to your son while he passes.
As a complete tangent, one doesn't doctrinally "need" the priesthood to pass the sacrament (only to prepare it). Although church policy is a different story.
Hm. I never thought of that. Where do you find that? Is it because D&C only talks about preparing?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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Heber13
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Heber13 » 31 May 2017, 07:50

Joni wrote:
30 May 2017, 14:56
Here's how it actually went down: Son was visibly frustrated/confused. Despite Husband's insistence that he would help, he was on the other side of the chapel from Son. However, there were several other adult men passing the sacrament (we don't have that many deacons) and they helped steer DS in the right direction.
Sounded like it turned out OK. Is your son feeling better about doing it now? Sometimes they feel apart of the group, what everyone else is doing. I guess that is peer pressure and can get out of balance, but sometimes that is a good thing to help them participate with others, kind of feel supported.

How is your son feeling?
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Roy
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Roy » 31 May 2017, 10:44

Heber13 wrote:
31 May 2017, 07:27
Roy wrote:
30 May 2017, 13:42
Heber13 wrote:
30 May 2017, 11:54
I mean...you don't need the priesthood to stand next to your son while he passes.
As a complete tangent, one doesn't doctrinally "need" the priesthood to pass the sacrament (only to prepare it). Although church policy is a different story.
Hm. I never thought of that. Where do you find that? Is it because D&C only talks about preparing?
In the D&C it states that "Administering the Sacrament" is one of the duties of the office of a priest. Passing the sacrament is something that each member technically does as they "pass" the tray down the row to the person next to them. Heber J. Grant wrote that there was "no rule in the church" that required priesthood holders to carry around the sacrament bread and water to the congregation after it was blessed. He did acknowledge that this was the custom but in no way a requirement. As the church began to move towards the lesser priesthood being reserved predominantly for the young men there was a need to come up with tasks for them to do. Passing the sacrament and collecting fast offerings are two of those duties that became assigned.

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewc ... monhistory

Page 130.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Heber13
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Heber13 » 31 May 2017, 12:05

Roy wrote:
31 May 2017, 10:44
Heber J. Grant wrote that there was "no rule in the church" that required priesthood holders to carry around the sacrament bread and water to the congregation after it was blessed.
We should have young women do it. It seems to have become an "assignment" like home teaching organized by quorums. But...good clarification.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

Joni
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Joni » 19 Jun 2017, 15:05

I didn't think it was possible, but the situation actually got worse.

On the way into church yesterday, Son said "I don't think I should pass the sacrament today." He had to repeat himself several times before Husband heard him. Husband immediately pulled Son into an empty classroom and I don't know what he said but when we went into the chapel, Son looked unhappy but went to the front with the other deacons.

Son had done the same "route" the last few weeks but by the time we got there yesterday, one of the other boys had taken it. (Husband's suggestion is that Son needs to learn how to advocate for himself. Not sure how he's going to learn that when his father keeps SHOOTING HIM DOWN EVERY TIME HE TRIES.) So, literally as soon as the bishop had had the bread and the deacons scattered, Son got lost. Within thirty seconds, he was red faced and exasperated. Within a minute, he was crying.

"Go and help him," I mouthed to my husband. After all, as a woman it's not my place to interfere with a priesthood ordinance. Husband was already wearing a white shirt and tie; it wouldn't have looked out of place for him to walk alongside Son at least until he got un-lost again.

Husband: "No. He's fine."

Me: "Does he LOOK fine? Go. And. Help. Him."

Husband: "No."

So I got up and left. I hadn't had the sacrament yet, but I refuse to be a party to this. My son was humiliated in front of the whole ward (I'm told that his tray of bread ended up getting spilled), he was upset and then got upset with himself for BEING upset, and he is 0/3 for having GOOD experiences with the priesthood.

As I was hiding out in the YW room, I thought, is this what Heavenly Mother goes through? She wants to help, but isn't allowed, married to someone who CAN help but refuses? Because I will NOT spend my eternity like that.

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Reuben
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Re: Son doesn't want to pass the sacrament

Post by Reuben » 20 Jun 2017, 00:39

I wish I could give a few people a stern talking-to and make it all better.

It's time for the young men to step up and rally around your son. This kind of brotherhood is the very purpose of a priesthood quorum. Apologies, understanding and acceptance are in order. Some might decide to do that on their own, but a coordinated effort would work much better. Get your son's priesthood leaders on this immediately. Talk to the YM president first, and if he doesn't respond, talk to the bishop. Escalate if you have to.

Don't wait for your husband to do this. As the mother of a priesthood holder, it's absolutely your place to interfere with any priesthood matter that involves him.

I have ADHD and I'm on the autism spectrum. I grew up with parents who tried to love me as the child they wished they got, instead of as the child they actually got. It was a source of endless frustration for everyone, and caused ripples of low-level shame and bitterness right up until I proved myself by finishing my PhD and then moved across the country.

I love my parents, but I wish they loved me for who I am. I'm not making the same mistake with my children. If there's anything you can do to stop your husband from making this mistake, do it.
Last edited by Reuben on 20 Jun 2017, 02:25, edited 1 time in total.
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