I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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Heber13
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by Heber13 » 17 Jun 2017, 08:52

If you are aware of all the factors involved that you can net it all out, then anything that leads to greater peace, happiness, goodness, closeness to God or any idea of positive energy in the universe, is a net gain. Especially if it helps the person in doing good positive loving things, and feeling good about their life.

We don't advocate that here, because we feel there is a way to find all that AND stay LDS...but I think for some, that peace is to be found by leaving the church.

Just 3 weeks ago I was asked to re-baptize a nice older woman in our ward. A few decades ago she had her records removed from the church, and left it for good. She later found her kids involved in the church, tuaght by the missionaries and teenage daughter baptized, she missed what she had, and came back to go through the process to get permission to be rebaptized, which was a spiritual experience. It means a lot to her now.

My point is...sometimes when you lose yourself, you find yourself. There are many paths for that as we seek to become what God wants of us. And it isn't final if a person leaves the church. They can come back. So i don't really see a downside in exploring paths that lead to a person's peace and happiness, as long as that person is always trading up to find more goodness and peace in their life. The net gain can be for that person's good, and sometimes they separate out what was/wasn't church from their spiritual journey with God directly. That can work for some.
Luke: "Why didn't you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."
Obi-Wan: "Your father... was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."
Luke: "A certain point of view?"
Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to...depend greatly on our point of view."

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DarkJedi
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by DarkJedi » 17 Jun 2017, 11:28

Heber13 wrote:
17 Jun 2017, 08:52
The net gain can be for that person's good, and sometimes they separate out what was/wasn't church from their spiritual journey with God directly. That can work for some.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Ray DeGraw
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by Ray DeGraw » 17 Jun 2017, 13:10

To be perfectly honest, Joni, I believe you need to get your mental and emotional health issues worked out in order to find any sort of religious peace - and I also think, as part of that process, you need to sort out and face your feelings regarding your husband and your marriage. You talk about your husband divorcing you. If you truly feel trapped in your marriage, do you want to think about divorce without waiting for him? No matter who initiates it, would the end result be the same? What are your own feelings about it? I'm not suggesting anything, but I think you need to think about it and figure it out. Finally, you need to figure out and accept your own view of God, independent of anyone else.

I have no idea what you need to do, ultimately, since all I know is what you have shared here. So . . .

I know I have asked this in the past, but are you seeing a professional about your issues? Is that possible? My only suggestion is to do that, if there is any way possible to do it. Your health is the most important thing right now.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Ann
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by Ann » 18 Jun 2017, 02:27

Joni, I'm sorry for the tough times, and even sorrier that you and your husband are at such a standoff.

My sister had a very troubled young adulthood and some mental illness. At one point she lived with us and I took it upon myself to make church attendance a condition of our help. Yeah. Looking back I wish I had given her space. Maybe she just needed a fresh start with God and religion instead of beating her head against the wall of the church and all her childhood memories. Maybe that's why most converts convert. It's not actually The Truth; it's My Second Try or The Next Step. Maybe you'll read fifty pages of Episcopalian materials and say, Nope. Maybe you'll feel hope and curiosity.
"Preachers err by trying to talk people into belief; better they reveal the radiance of their own discovery." - Joseph Campbell

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." - Marcel Proust

"Therefore they said unto him, How were thine eyes opened? He answered and said unto them, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes...." - John 9:10-11

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LookingHard
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by LookingHard » 18 Jun 2017, 11:37

ydeve wrote:
17 Jun 2017, 05:46
Joni wrote:
16 Jun 2017, 14:51
Hypothetical question: if a person leaves the Church, but improves her relationship with God, is that a net gain?
If you don't believe in the church's truth claims and social reasons aren't a factor, what benefit is there to staying in the church *if* you think that you will have a closer relationship to God outside it?
That sounds like a retorical question, but in. Case it is not then locigally there isn't much of a reason to stay.

Joni
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by Joni » 19 Jun 2017, 14:42

Divorce isn't on the table right now. (Not like we could even afford it.) But in ten or fifteen years? One or more of the children is going to leave the church, and DH will have to divorce me as punishment for my failure.

And I did try to work on my depression. I really did try. I was seeing a (non LDS) therapist but God took away my husband's job as punishment. So now I fear what He will do if I don't learn my lesson and try and fix myself, in some future day when I have the money and time. Will He give me cancer? Will He target my kids? I'd rather not find out.

My question about leaving the church was largely hypothetical. It's not just the Mormon God I have a problem with. I mean, all of Christianity has to grapple with the sexist, genocidal tyrant of the Old Testament. And they all largely try and explain it away using the same logic. "Sure, it looks bad but God is not a jerk!" I don't buy that anymore. If I'm going to be a misotheist/dystheist, it really doesn't matter what church I do it in.

However... Just to throw a wrench into the whole thing: The last time I was at the temple (which was years ago and that's by design) I got a very strong impression, "You have to leave the church." Now obviously that impression didn't come from God but who DID it come from? How did Satan sneak into the temple to whisper falsehoods into my ear? :wtf:

Roy
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by Roy » 19 Jun 2017, 14:51

I am sorry for your struggles Joni - Both the physical events and the meaning you have drawn from them.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

Ray DeGraw
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Re: I can't anymore. I'm done with God.

Post by Ray DeGraw » 19 Jun 2017, 19:24

We see God very differently, Joni, so all I can do is offer my supporting ear and heart - and ask you again to figure out how you personally WANT to feel about God.

What do you want God to be like?

Once you answer that, believe in that God. Even if you believe you can't express it openly to others, hold onto it inside yourself. There is no indisputable proof that God is any particular thing, so believe in a God you want to believe in - no matter how your desired God would be viewed by others.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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