Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
university
Posts: 150
Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 17:19

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by university » 25 Jan 2016, 13:23

Pre-Faith Crisis I wouldn't have pushed the button. To me, that would have been like cheating and go against the very purpose of the plan of salvation. Faith was at the core of my testimony. God intended us to use faith. To press the button would be going against God's plan for us. Plus, I already knew that I belonged to the one true religion, so it didn't matter.

Today? I don't know. It would be very scary. But I think I would push it. Would it be depressing if there is no afterlife and it's just a dog-eat-dog world? Yes, it would be. And I'd struggle. But hopefully, I'd be able to come out of it and still find joy. And that would be very beautiful, as well. However, I really can't say.

User avatar
Orson
Site Admin
Posts: 2252
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 14:44

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by Orson » 25 Jan 2016, 13:41

It's easy to see that my present context for religion is completely different from where Kirby is coming from. His proposal makes no sense to me, it's like saying "if you could press a button to learn whether or not you truly love your wife..."

I know some people speak in other ways, but I have no context for what they're saying so their words simply don't stick.

The comment "they can't all be true" is craziness. I can have a million bicycle wheels and every one of them in true.

Pitting religion against science is a no-starter. They are completely different realms. "Afterlife" in human terms is a model that helps us live until death, then we all get to see what happens. I love a good mystery. A button could never give us the truth of such things because I don't believe a mortal mind can grasp it.
My avatar - both physical and spiritual.

I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2905
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by LookingHard » 25 Jan 2016, 13:47

nibbler wrote:After that what truly matters? ;) When you answer that question you'll have the answer to the question of what buttons you are still unwilling to press.

What happens the next morning when you realize that the bills still need to be paid, the health of your youth is still forever gone, all the problems you had before you pressed the button are still right there dogging you, just as impossible to shake as they were before?
I understand that it wouldn't solve all problems (and might actually create new ones). But I could then take a look at what both brings me joy and helps humanity. I have said several times I would rather be going to a widow's home and helping on a todo list of help than go to just about any church meeting.

nibbler
Posts: 4086
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by nibbler » 25 Jan 2016, 13:56

LookingHard wrote:I understand that it wouldn't solve all problems (and might actually create new ones). But I could then take a look at what both brings me joy and helps humanity. I have said several times I would rather be going to a widow's home and helping on a todo list of help than go to just about any church meeting.
Exactly... but you don't need to press a button to start doing those things.
Orson wrote:I can have a million bicycle wheels and every one of them in true.
I never did learn how to tighten spokes properly. One day. ;)

User avatar
FaithfulSkeptic
Posts: 226
Joined: 06 Jun 2014, 09:04

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by FaithfulSkeptic » 25 Jan 2016, 14:31

Without a doubt, I'm one that would push the button if I could. I would love to be 100% certain and know "beyond the shadow of a doubt" whether the church was true (or not).

I feel like I have pushed the button (or at least tried to), but realized that there is no way to be 100% certain of anything. I can definitely see lots of reasons that would seem to indicate that the church is not "true" (whatever that means). But I can't say that with 100% certainty. It's definitely not black and white.

My wife is in group #2 (ignorance is bliss). She loves the church so much and believes it is good for our family, regardless of whether it is true or not (although she sincerely believes it is true). She wants to stay as far away from the truth button as possible, and place complete trust in the Lord and our leaders. She does not understand my point of view and why I can't just have faith. It causes a lot of conflict in our marriage.

For me this problem is something I struggle with every day of my life. I want to know for sure, but it's not worth risking or destroying relationships with the people I love the most. I'm trying to find a way to push truth buttons but not destroy relationships with those that want to remain in ignorant bliss.
I know of no sign on the doors of our meetinghouses that says, “Your testimony must be this tall to enter.” Dieter F. Uchtdorf, October 2014

Minyan Man
Posts: 1677
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by Minyan Man » 25 Jan 2016, 14:50

I don't know if I would or not. I would have to think about it.
As I understand it, if you push the button, there would be no need for faith.
It would be a perfect knowledge. No doubts. No discussion. Nothing wavering.
When I put it that way, I don't think I would.

I have to think about everything (usually a long time) before I make a decision.

User avatar
wayfarer
Posts: 1335
Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 15:59
Location: in ye olde world
Contact:

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by wayfarer » 25 Jan 2016, 14:57

I love that damn button.

But I'm pretty sure that any "truth" it provides, is just as contingent as that which resides in my own mind.

or yours.

just sayin'.

how's everyone doin?
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

Minyan Man
Posts: 1677
Joined: 15 Sep 2011, 13:40

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by Minyan Man » 25 Jan 2016, 14:58

Great to hear from you again. What have you been up to?

User avatar
wayfarer
Posts: 1335
Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 15:59
Location: in ye olde world
Contact:

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by wayfarer » 25 Jan 2016, 15:08

Most of my available time is spent moderating A Thoughtful Faith, but today we're snowed in... and I am getting cabin fever...

so here i am!
"Those who speak don't know, those who know don't speak." Lao Tzu.
My seat in the bloggernacle: http://wayfaringfool.blogspot.com

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 7206
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Push the button or "Stay LDS"

Post by SilentDawning » 25 Jan 2016, 16:54

I would press the button. I joined this church because I wanted to "distinguish between truth and error". And I still want to know the truth. if it turns out the LDS church is true, then great, I can work on getting past all the doo-doo that keeps me away from it. Having only some unreliable spiritual feelings to go on, and expecting to put up with a lot of abuse, the financial drain, the time drain, the monotony -- if I KNEW it was true it would seem worth it. It would be good for my marriage and my relationship with one of my children too...If there was some other philosophy that was true, great, let's get on with living it!!

Of course, I would push the button!!!
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Post Reply