Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

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Roy
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by Roy » 29 Dec 2015, 13:24

Minyan Man wrote:Roy, I'll bite. What were the two the most demanding callings in the church?
Ward Mission Leader and Primary President. Technically I said:
Roy wrote:two of the most demanding callings in the ward.
Which can mean that these two calling are among an undisclosed number of "most demanding" ward callings. How is that for parsing? :think:
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

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Minyan Man
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by Minyan Man » 29 Dec 2015, 14:24

I agree with the Ward Mission Leader. I would never do that job again. Back in the day, it was Seventy's President.
Parsing. I had to look that up.

Rob4Hope
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by Rob4Hope » 29 Dec 2015, 14:29

Why do they leave it up so much to individual interpretation?...and why are you held accountable to an ecclesiastical leader who is influence by his own understanding, of which he himself probably doesn't know much?

Rather interesting question to me.

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DarkJedi
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by DarkJedi » 29 Dec 2015, 15:58

Rob4Hope wrote:Why do they leave it up so much to individual interpretation?...and why are you held accountable to an ecclesiastical leader who is influence by his own understanding, of which he himself probably doesn't know much?

Rather interesting question to me.
I like that it's left to our own understanding because it leaves the door ever so slightly ajar that other things may be likewise interpreted and not everything is "exact."
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 29 Dec 2015, 18:07

I am glad it is left up to individual interpretation and understanding.

I wish that was true of more things - and I believe it is true of FAR more things than most people think.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

Rob4Hope
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by Rob4Hope » 30 Dec 2015, 11:06

I am reading Greg Prince's biography of David O. McKay.

At BYU, Earnest Wilkinson was able to pull whether BYU faculty were paying full tithing or part on their income, which he new. He used that level of commitment to dismiss (as in fire) people from the faculty.

The numbers were calculated by HQ....it wasn't a declaration. So, they had a way of calculating what they felt was a "full tithe".

The church, in this situation, did NOT leave it up to interpretation.

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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by Curt Sunshine » 30 Dec 2015, 12:40

Wilkerson was a zealot. Of that, there is no question. He lived in a time of relative zealotry. Of that, there is no question (except for other zealots who agree(d) with him)

You're right. A zealot used the information for a particular action that circumvented the official statement. The application didn't match the published meaning / interpretation.

I don't mean this flippantly, but such is life. The published meaning / interpretation is what it is; what we do with it is what we do with it.

As for me, I pay on net income and have no problem with my conscience whatsoever. Such is me.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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SilentDawning
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by SilentDawning » 31 Dec 2015, 08:18

Interesting sub thread here about Wilkerson -- it goes to how how leaders CAN violate their own principles. I am now wondering if this is an example of a pattern of unmet expectations, or whether it is simply a blip on the radar of unmet expectations implemented by a lone zealot. And was Wilkerson ever censured for FIRING the people who didn't meet up to his own definition of a full tithe? I would expect that an organization that was truly committed to its statement of what tithing is, would impose some kind of discipline (not formal church discipline, but some kind of verbal censure, or reversal of the harsh firings).
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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hawkgrrrl
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by hawkgrrrl » 31 Dec 2015, 10:33

I have it on good authority that still happens at BYU. Maybe not 100% across the board, but it's not a relic of the past.

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SilentDawning
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Re: Wheat & Tares Post on Surplus Tithing

Post by SilentDawning » 31 Dec 2015, 10:44

Sadly, then I put it on the unmet expectations pile as it appears to be a consistent pattern of behavior. And very coercive too. Particularly when we have a statement from the FP, quoted in Gospel Principles that tithing is a matter of personal conscience.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

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