Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whatever

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whatever

Post by Rob4Hope » 16 Jun 2015, 19:30

OK,....

This should be an interesting topic. I'm divorced after a long marriage that didn't work out,...and I find that loneliness is,...well, it SUCKS! It sucks BAD BAD BAD!

I am making peace with it,....slowly, but sometimes when I come home to my empty apartment (my children are mostly grown and married), the silence can be stifling.

Of course I know the answers most people give: "You just need to plan things to help people" -- "Join a club" -- "Make new friends"....etc. So, please don't bombard me with more advice on that stuff--OK?...I've heard it all already. And, yes, those are good ideas.

But, what I have found is a yearning for intimacy on a spiritual, emotional, and yes,..physical level, that can't really be met by those other means. I have read also that for women, being alone may be easier to cope with than men (don't beat me up on this statement,..Laura Brotherson said it,...beat her), and if that is the case, wow. But, it doesn't help me much.

It is because of my predicament that my heart just goes out to those who are single out there, and especially to the LDS LGBTQ community who, if they live their religion, may find themselves alone in many ways that are not easily dealt with.

I have no idea where this discussion will end up,..but one last thing I want to say. Many people who are MARRIED even have to deal with this loneliness. How sad is that!? For a long time, I did, and felt my chances would be better if I moved on, which I am working on now (so I don't see myself alone forever).

But I want to know comments about this from others. It seems that "singleness" is a challenge for the LDS faith. Am I wrong in this assessment? And, what are others feeling about this topic?

User avatar
LookingHard
Posts: 2950
Joined: 20 Oct 2014, 12:11

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by LookingHard » 16 Jun 2015, 19:37

I love watching nature shows and they often talk about how some animals really like the group and others only come together for a few moments to get it on.

I was watching "Interstellar" (spoiler alert) and when the main character found himself all alone - possibly forever it really hit me that to be alone (truly completely alone) forever would be pure hell. I would want to kill myself.

So it is with some animals. They get depressed when they are not with their kind. I feel God made us that way.

Before you even brought it up I was thinking about the gay members and how they are asked to essentially live alone with no real close friendships. That has got to be hell. When someone mentioned that, it was the point where I fully embraced that I feel the church's stand on this issue is in error.

I have no great words of wisdom, but keep working on it. I do feel you can find some happiness.

Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by Rob4Hope » 16 Jun 2015, 19:52

LH,...I wonder sometimes how much the GAs know about this topic...but perhaps they do know something. I remember, for example, when Elder Scott's wife died. You could see something in him die with that. But, those guys probably have assurance (as in second witness type stuff) that they have it made when they die. Do LGBTQ folks have those assurances? Are they somehow going to have a magic wand waved and all of the sudden they are heterosexual with a spouse hand picked for their eternal bliss and fulfillment?

Many Stage 3 folks seem to think this is the case--I've met some. But, for the life of me, I have never heard a real doctrine taught and certainly not endorsed, that such changes will happen. Mitch Mayne in California feels he is VERY gay, and that will not necessarily change for him,..and somehow he has made peace with that. But MANY MANY others haven't.

Can you imagine the utter turmoil and churning wormy hell that such loneliness that seems to be eternal can be?

Look, I might be speaking out of turn here, and if I am, I sincerely am sorry. I am just thinking about this topic this evening because I am in a very quiet place, alone right now,...and it isn't cool.

More thoughts?

startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by startpoor » 16 Jun 2015, 20:26

It would be hell for me. Which is why I sympathize greatly with people who choose celibacy on behalf of their religion, be it LGBT folk, singles, divorcees or catholic priests. Yet the church holds a carrot out in front of them offering promises if they endure to the end. My bishop believes LGBTs will become Hetero in the hereafter. I don't blame him for thinking that way, I couldn't do the job of bishop unless I believed that we were offering real hope to those who are keeping their covenants. Curious R4H, and you don't have to answer publicly, but what are your thoughts on fornication as a divorced, faith transitioning person?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

User avatar
SilentDawning
Posts: 7336
Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by SilentDawning » 17 Jun 2015, 03:57

Rob4Hope wrote:OK,....
Many people who are MARRIED even have to deal with this loneliness. How sad is that!? For a long time, I did, and felt my chances would be better if I moved on, which I am working on now (so I don't see myself alone forever).

But I want to know comments about this from others. It seems that "singleness" is a challenge for the LDS faith. Am I wrong in this assessment? And, what are others feeling about this topic?
Yep. I feel alone in my marriage at times. I know the feelings. You get used to the other person's thought and behavior patterns, and they become predictable. I know that if I mention something on my mind more than once to my spouse, my spouse will say "you already told me that", effectively shutting down the conversation. So, much of my inner life goes unexpressed even in marriage. And often, she mistakes my sharing of a detail twice as repetition, when in fact, the second time is an introduction to an expansion of the previous comment based on new information.

And of course, I understand the lack of physical intimacy problem.

I don't have much of an answer to this. I do think that exposing yourself to a lot of new people may help you run into someone who fills the ache of loneliness.

I'm not a great one to talk to about this, because I have often thought that if I do become single, I would probably not get married again. Part of me does not see the point -- perhaps loneliness will fix that...

But I was single until I was in my late, late twenties, and know the ache of being alone. The period from when I was 25 to 28 was full of that deafening quiet when I would come home. Even being in a crowd can be lonely when you don't have a close relationship with anyone in that crowd....

But one thing I never underestimate is the power of life to change a person's mind, and for life to surprise you with someone that can help you feel fulfilled again. I leave that possibility open...
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by Rob4Hope » 17 Jun 2015, 07:11

startpoor wrote:It would be hell for me. Which is why I sympathize greatly with people who choose celibacy on behalf of their religion, be it LGBT folk, singles, divorcees or catholic priests. Yet the church holds a carrot out in front of them offering promises if they endure to the end. My bishop believes LGBTs will become Hetero in the hereafter. I don't blame him for thinking that way, I couldn't do the job of bishop unless I believed that we were offering real hope to those who are keeping their covenants. Curious R4H, and you don't have to answer publicly, but what are your thoughts on fornication as a divorced, faith transitioning person?
I have no problem answering your question. I am excommunicated right now, so there is "technically" nothing in the "Church" to prevent me from going out there and fornicating if I choose. And, MANY people who have no religion feel that what you do in your own relationships is your business, no one else s.

Your question can spin into two directions here, and since I enjoy dialog, I will answer it in such a way that it can divide if needed.

1) I do believe personally it is wrong morally to engage in sexual relations outside of marriage.
2) For the life of me, it frightens me to death to consider remarriage WITHOUT knowing we are sexually compatible.

And hence,..I have a conflict that gnaws at me as I date. And this is flat out being honest here.

According to SWK, the #1 cause of divorce back in the day was they didn't get along sexually. The church doesn't address that topic hardly at all (with the exception of the VERY recent FHE lesson). IN fact, the church has downplayed, IMHO, that topic. And yet, the divorces seem to still roll along. So its a dilemma for me at least.

Anyway SP,...there you go. Thoughts?

Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by Rob4Hope » 17 Jun 2015, 07:21

SilentDawning wrote:
Rob4Hope wrote:OK,....
Many people who are MARRIED even have to deal with this loneliness. How sad is that!? For a long time, I did, and felt my chances would be better if I moved on, which I am working on now (so I don't see myself alone forever).

But I want to know comments about this from others. It seems that "singleness" is a challenge for the LDS faith. Am I wrong in this assessment? And, what are others feeling about this topic?
Yep. I feel alone in my marriage at times. I know the feelings. You get used to the other person's thought and behavior patterns, and they become predictable. I know that if I mention something on my mind more than once to my spouse, my spouse will say "you already told me that", effectively shutting down the conversation. So, much of my inner life goes unexpressed even in marriage. And often, she mistakes my sharing of a detail twice as repetition, when in fact, the second time is an introduction to an expansion of the previous comment based on new information.

And of course, I understand the lack of physical intimacy problem.

I don't have much of an answer to this. I do think that exposing yourself to a lot of new people may help you run into someone who fills the ache of loneliness.

I'm not a great one to talk to about this, because I have often thought that if I do become single, I would probably not get married again. Part of me does not see the point -- perhaps loneliness will fix that...

But I was single until I was in my late, late twenties, and know the ache of being alone. The period from when I was 25 to 28 was full of that deafening quiet when I would come home. Even being in a crowd can be lonely when you don't have a close relationship with anyone in that crowd....

But one thing I never underestimate is the power of life to change a person's mind, and for life to surprise you with someone that can help you feel fulfilled again. I leave that possibility open...
SD, I don't know if you are male or female....I know very little about most on this site (but I am learning...I am learning).

-----------------------
Correction,...just read it more carefully...you mentioned your spouse is "she". Sorry,...not up to speed on your post.
-----------------------

Anyway, thanks for the response.

There is a ZEN idea that I have wrestled with. And it seems that in some ways it might be part of the gospel? That idea is to eliminate the desire in the first place, the desire to be wanted or held, or loved. If we don't desire that, we can't be hurt from the lack of it.

Anyone out there ever read Todd Comptons book "In Sacred Loneliness"? Is it part of the Gospel of JC for us to take solace in loneliness, learning to deny this part of our humanity?

OK...FAITH CRISIS moment coming on...I feel it. It makes me angry to consider that God would implant feelings into our hearts, and then deny them to us because we are to choose Him and His Gospel at the exclusion of how we were created in the first place. This seems cruel to me.........this is something I have struggled with in my past, and it turns me away from God.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Rob4Hope on 17 Jun 2015, 07:37, edited 1 time in total.

NightSG
Posts: 330
Joined: 09 Feb 2015, 09:35

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by NightSG » 17 Jun 2015, 07:35

Rob4Hope wrote:There is a ZEN idea that I have wrestled with. And it seems that in some ways it might be part of the gospel? That idea is to eliminate the desire in the first place, the desire to be wanted or held, or loved. If we don't desire that, we can't be hurt from the lack of it.
Sounds somewhere between delusional and outright dangerous, like a recovering addict convincing themselves they've truly eliminated the desire for the focus of their addiction. Good way to find yourself in a hard relapse without the psychological preparation to deal with it.
Anyone out there ever read Todd Comptons book "In Sacred Loneliness"? Is it part of the Gospel of JC for us to take solace in loneliness, learning to deny this part of our humanity?
Doubtful; the desire for companionship certainly appears to be something that we gain from being created in His image, so denying it would be counterproductive to the goal of becoming like Him.

Rob4Hope
Posts: 665
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 07:28

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by Rob4Hope » 17 Jun 2015, 07:41

NightSG wrote:Sounds somewhere between delusional and outright dangerous, like a recovering addict convincing themselves they've truly eliminated the desire for the focus of their addiction. Good way to find yourself in a hard relapse without the psychological preparation to deal with it.
How so?

The reason I brought up Compton's book is because it speaks about the "wives" intentionally turning their full attention to their children because they finally accepted that they would NOT be getting their needs met from their marriage. Loneliness was profound.

I know people personally who have intentionally taken overt steps in their life to displace the loneliness (in marriage that is) with a shift of focus. Is it addictive to want to be loved and desired by your spouse? If it is not addictive, how do you justify the loneliness being unmet in a situation that was created by God in the first place?

startpoor
Posts: 193
Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 13:43

Re: Loneliness -- those who are unmarried because of whateve

Post by startpoor » 17 Jun 2015, 08:22

Rob4Hope wrote:
startpoor wrote:It would be hell for me. Which is why I sympathize greatly with people who choose celibacy on behalf of their religion, be it LGBT folk, singles, divorcees or catholic priests. Yet the church holds a carrot out in front of them offering promises if they endure to the end. My bishop believes LGBTs will become Hetero in the hereafter. I don't blame him for thinking that way, I couldn't do the job of bishop unless I believed that we were offering real hope to those who are keeping their covenants. Curious R4H, and you don't have to answer publicly, but what are your thoughts on fornication as a divorced, faith transitioning person?
I have no problem answering your question. I am excommunicated right now, so there is "technically" nothing in the "Church" to prevent me from going out there and fornicating if I choose. And, MANY people who have no religion feel that what you do in your own relationships is your business, no one else s.

Your question can spin into two directions here, and since I enjoy dialog, I will answer it in such a way that it can divide if needed.

1) I do believe personally it is wrong morally to engage in sexual relations outside of marriage.
2) For the life of me, it frightens me to death to consider remarriage WITHOUT knowing we are sexually compatible.

And hence,..I have a conflict that gnaws at me as I date. And this is flat out being honest here.

According to SWK, the #1 cause of divorce back in the day was they didn't get along sexually. The church doesn't address that topic hardly at all (with the exception of the VERY recent FHE lesson). IN fact, the church has downplayed, IMHO, that topic. And yet, the divorces seem to still roll along. So its a dilemma for me at least.

Anyway SP,...there you go. Thoughts?
Ha! Thanks for the honest answer. I think people who haven't been in sexual relationships think that sexual compatibility is a given, or that good sex just happens and has nothing to do with good communication. So it's probably "easier" for young, "faithful" mormons to abstain from sex before marriage than for someone who has had such a relationship.
As I have faith transitioned, I have not thought so highly of waiting till marriage, but rather learning to be responsible and knowing how to communicate about it. I don't think the fornication is a sin, but rather how we use sex (as a tool, as a weapon, with disregard for another's feelings, with disregard for consequences etc) or if it is in the form of adultery. But that is because I believe in sins agains self and others, rather than sins against God (for the most part anyway, there probably are some ways we can sin against God.)
Why do you think sex outside of marriage is a sin?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Happiness (n.) The state of being in compliance with Mormon norms, regardless of one’s actual resulting emotional state

George, Sr.: Faith is a fact. No, faith is a facet. I almost said faith is a fact.

Post Reply