There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
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Curt Sunshine
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There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by Curt Sunshine » 23 Jul 2014, 09:28

I love the following quote by Oliver Wendall Holmes:
"The mind that is stretched by new experience can never go back to its old dimensions."


I know this is a simple thought, but I just want to encourage everyone not to get caught up in a longing for the past. Certainty can be gained again, but it only will happen with a different type of certainty - perhaps best described as a certainty that everything is subject to continued change and that it can be an exciting, growth-producing journey, even though it nearly always will be a painful one in some ways.

The old adage, "No pain; no gain," is true in many situations - as is the idea that growth often hurts. I think the key is the perspective we internalize - of not looking back with longing but rather looking forward with hope. Making that shift in the middle of the pain isn't easy, but it is life-altering. I hope everyone here "endures to the end" of the process of letting go of a desire to return to a former condition and/or an angry rejection of that condition (and the negativity such a desire produces) and reaches the point where you can embrace fully becoming a new person through gaining a new, positive perspective (that, generally, would not have been possible without the former condition) - one that is not as easy or simple as what was "lost" but is much, much, much more growth-producing and enlivening.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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DarkJedi
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by DarkJedi » 23 Jul 2014, 11:03

I like this Ray. To an extent, I think that those of us who have experienced a faith crisis relate very well to the statement - we have had discussions here about being unable to go back to believing the way we used to. I used to yearn for that but now realize how impossible that is and I'm comfortable with my new or revised beliefs. I think those who haven't experienced a crisis of faith have more difficulty relating to this idea, though - sort of like your thestrals and boggarts. Living where I live I have experienced a couple major floods in my lifetime. People who haven't experienced one can often say things like "That must be awful" and they're right, it is. But unless you've experienced it you don't know how awful it is - the loss of property, the MUD, the mold, the homelessness, etc. People move on, but it forever changes them.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

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Curt Sunshine
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by Curt Sunshine » 23 Jul 2014, 12:21

Another quote I came across today that relates. It is from the movie, "Bull Durham":
"The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness."


I might change it to change "made for" to "run by" - but the general message is excellent for those who find themselves here, I think.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

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MockingJay
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by MockingJay » 24 Jul 2014, 05:38

Comforting words Ray and DJ.

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SilentDawning
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by SilentDawning » 24 Jul 2014, 06:35

The encouragement is appreciated. Not sure what form the future state will be -- that's highly uncertain, but the hope that there can be peace of the same kind I once enjoyed as a TBM is comforting.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

RiverSong14
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by RiverSong14 » 24 Jul 2014, 11:37

Excellent quote! This makes perfect sense to me. :)

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Shades of Grey
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by Shades of Grey » 31 Jul 2014, 11:01

The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness."

I might change it to change "made for" to "run by" - but the general message is excellent for those who find themselves here, I think.
I really like this Ray. I've been thinking about it for a while. Two thoughts: Could this quote be interchangeable with
"The Church is made for people who aren't cursed with (more evolved) self-awarwness?"
We know self awareness is the one distinction that makes us as humans different than any other of God's creations. With this in mind, varing levels of detectable self- awareness do exist among mankind. We say it all the time "so and so person is " very self-aware ". It almost implies (with all humility) a further evolution of said person.

Pointed question: Is this possible further evolution/progression of self awareness (again.. with all humility it is out of our control) that detectable differentness that makes the Stay LDSer type?

Extend this to anyone in this world in similar situation whom is demanded to see with much nuance that doesn't seem to fit.. and they find the way to fit while helping to aid the progress others?

Any and all thoughts please...
Everybody can be great. Because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve. ...You don't have to know the second theory of thermodynamics in physics to serve. You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love. ~Martin Luther King Jr.

“You have to carry the fire."I don't know how to."Yes, you do."Is the fire real? The fire? "Yes it is."Where is it? I don't know where it is." Yes you do. It's inside you. It always was there. I can see it.”― Cormac McCarthy, The Road

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Forgotten_Charity
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by Forgotten_Charity » 31 Jul 2014, 14:13

Shades of Grey wrote:
The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self-awareness."

I might change it to change "made for" to "run by" - but the general message is excellent for those who find themselves here, I think.
I really like this Ray. I've been thinking about it for a while. Two thoughts: Could this quote be interchangeable with

"The Church is made for people who aren't cursed with (more evolved) self-awarwness? "

We know self awareness is the one distinction that makes us as humans different than any other of God's creations. With this in mind, varing levels of detectable self- awareness do exist among mankind. We say it all the time "so and so person is " very self-aware ". It almost implies (with all humility) a further evolution of said person.

Pointed question: Is this possible further evolution/progression of self awareness (again.. with all humility it is out of our control) that detectable differentness that makes the Stay LDSer type?
Extend this to anyone in this world in similar situation whom is demanded to see with much nuance that doesn't seem to fit.. and they find the way to fit while helping to aid the progress others?

Any and all thoughts please...
Yes there are known differences in self-awareness among people as their is among animals. But that is where I must humbly discard the notion that we are the only species that god made that is self aware. Humans
Orangutans
Chimpanzees
Gorillas
Bottlenose Dolphins
Elephants
Orcas
Bonobos
Rhesus Macaques
European Magpies

These are all known now to be self aware, some such as dolphins and orcas have displayed very high self awareness, critical thought, creativity, mourning of family and close friends along with high depression and anxiety when separated from those with close bonds(some even killing themselves when they realize the family/mate isn't coming back through death or getting left behind or separated.

It's a common misconception. They as well as we have displayed varying levels of self awareness.

However it's a nervous moral issue as that's a boundary we openly state to justify the way we treat various people and animals with their relation to people in the world. Especially since babies, certain disabilities and injures people display a lack of self awareness much lower then many tested animals and cetaceans.

With more knowledge and stillness with awareness of ones own self and their relationship to others and the world brings more acute sensitivity and awareness. However in many studies people preferred to choose to be electrocuted then be left alone contemplating their own thoughts. As such I guess many choose to not be self-aware. It seems to bring discomfort and pain to many.

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Daeruin
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Re: There Is No Going Back - Only Forward

Post by Daeruin » 31 Jul 2014, 18:10

Forgotten Charity, I find that fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
"Not all those who wander are lost" —Tolkien

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