are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

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TataniaAvalon
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Joined: 10 Dec 2013, 05:47
Location: Utah

Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by TataniaAvalon » 03 Jul 2014, 08:56

I no longer wear mine due to a variety of issues and I don't feel to bad about it. If I were to go to a temple recommend interview I would probably say yes because I feel the issues are between me and the Lord an outsider doesn't need to tell me if I'm right or wrong. I do feel the wording in the interview should be changed even when I was a missionary I didn't wear them 24/7. Do what makes you comfortable and if your family asks tell then noyb.

On a side note my non member husband calls them my celestial flight suit. Thanks that makes me feel sexy.

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SilentDawning
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Joined: 09 May 2010, 19:55

Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by SilentDawning » 03 Jul 2014, 09:05

Here's my story.

I find my garments hang below my very modest shorts. I put up with this for 20 years around the house, and occasionally in public when they would slip down from my waist as my body shape changed. One day I woke up and decided I'd HAD IT. It was irreverent to be walking around with garment hems below my already below the knee. modest shorts - in humid 100 degree plus weather. It was silly not to wear modest shorts simply because the church had yet another policy that created damaging exceptions that could not be admitted or accommodated for us outliers.

Even the short ones the church authorizes wouldn't work for me.

To make matters worse, I notice members scrutinizing how much leg I show now when I am wearing shorts. Missionaries did it to me the other day. And then, they make a judgment about whether you are temple recommend holder and all the judgmentalism that comes with it.

I personally don't wear them except to church. If I had a TR, I would wear them to the temple. The point is -- no one is going to ask you to strip down and show them what you are wearing. I like the interpretation that you must wear them "night and day". As long as you wear them on Sunday and into the evening, and then take them off at bedtime for the rest of the week, you're in compliance with the TR rule's language, in my view.

Also, be judicious about what you tell your priesthood leaders. They are judge, jury, executioner and therapist all rolled into one. That doesn't make for great confidantes. This has been confirmed over and over and over again. There is no "Bishop-Member" privilege in the church, and its a crap shoot as to whether you're going to be fairly dealt with, with compassion when you share what the real state of affairs is.
"It doesn't have to be about the Church (church) all the time!" -- SD

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

A man asked Jesus "do all roads lead to you?" Jesus responds,”most roads don’t lead anywhere, but I will travel any road to find you.” Adapted from The Shack, William Young

Roy
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Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Roy » 03 Jul 2014, 10:59

SGoodman wrote:You said that your reaction to the garments was discomfort, anxiety, "I would cry every day when I got dressed and would wake up at night sweating and in tears." It's just underwear. What about this could possibly create that level of tension in you?
Ray DeGraw wrote:For people who have never experienced body image issues, it is very difficult to understand how the garment can exacerbate those issues. For a lot of people, especially women, it isn't "just underwear".
SGoodman, I believe that your heart is in the right place. I hope that upon reflection you will be able to see how this particular sentence could be seen as dismissive and insensitive.

I too am a man that wears garments largely as underwear. I still wear them 24/7 today largely because I don't care enough to make it an issue with my wife or go underwear shopping. As a missionary, I remember a sister confiding in me that she didn't want to go to the temple because the thought of wearing garments was freaking her out. I mentally categorized her as a selfish person that was putting the cares of the world and fashion above her duty to God. I set about trying to show her that her concerns were invalid. It seemed to work but looking back I believe I just managed to shut down the conversation by shaming her into silence.

As I said before - Garments are not an issue for me personally... BUT largely through my time here at StayLDS, I have come to know individuals that have had graments undermine their mental health. Please visit the links I posted before to better understand where these types of concerns may be coming from.
"It is not so much the pain and suffering of life which crushes the individual as it is its meaninglessness and hopelessness." C. A. Elwood

“It is not the function of religion to answer all the questions about God’s moral government of the universe, but to give one courage, through faith, to go on in the face of questions he never finds the answer to in his present status.” TPC: Harold B. Lee 223

"I struggle now with establishing my faith that God may always be there, but may not always need to intervene" Heber13

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Cadence
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by Cadence » 03 Jul 2014, 11:29

Without trying to offend all I care to say is garments are in my top 5 of things that need to go in the church
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction--faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” Neil deGrasse Tyson

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cwald
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by cwald » 03 Jul 2014, 11:33

Cadence wrote:Without trying to offend all I care to say is garments are in my top 5 of things that need to go in the church
Yes.

It's creepy this is even an issue. ... we're taking about underwear rules and requirements.

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  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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mom3
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by mom3 » 03 Jul 2014, 11:58

Cadence said -
Without trying to offend all I care to say is garments are in my top 5 of things that need to go in the church
No offense here.

Cwald said -
It's creepy this is even an issue. ... we're taking about underwear rules and requirements.
I like ritual items. Jewish caps, priests sashes, rosary's and beads for prayer etc. For me I would create medallion or ring. You receive it during the initiatory with the same symbolic meaning. You wear it - whether on your finger, a chain around your neck or a key chain with you vile of oil. Symbols. The TR question could then be simply do you keep the symbols you were taught sacred.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

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ConfusedMolly
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Joined: 13 Jun 2014, 12:22

Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by ConfusedMolly » 03 Jul 2014, 12:09

Oh I like the ring idea! I think there's a lot of different things we could wear something that symbolizes our covenants besides the garment.

I have personally decided that I don't wear my garments for things like working out or if I'm going to spending all day outside in mid-summer. Also, I think it's fun to walk around the house in something cuter than garments and maybe actually sleep in something different. It definitely helps a lot with confidence and feeling attractive for me as a wife. Am I going to tell my bishop this? No way. It's definitely between YOU and the Lord. You decide what works for you and then you can answer the TR interview question confidently.

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SamBee
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by SamBee » 03 Jul 2014, 14:48

It's a kind of way of identifying strangers as LDS.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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cwald
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by cwald » 03 Jul 2014, 15:12

SamBee wrote:It's a kind of way of identifying strangers as LDS.
Exactly. It's signaling. Larsen talked a lot about this on his mormom privilege podcast.

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  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

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SamBee
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Re: are garments getting your panties in a bunch, too?

Post by SamBee » 03 Jul 2014, 15:29

A metaphor for Mormonism:

Outside - well groomed + kind of square, friendly, boring chapel buildings, conservatism, small town

Inside - hidden garments + handshaking, Jesus in America, amazing looking temples, radically different theology, your own planet
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

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