John Dehlin is leaving the building

Public forum for those seeking support for their experience in the LDS Church.
User avatar
mackay11
Posts: 2045
Joined: 01 Nov 2012, 18:01

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by mackay11 » 02 May 2014, 06:37

SamBee wrote:If he wants to go, go. I'm tired of hearing about it every six months.
I'm glad I've not made the public profile for myself that John has.

Only my DW gets close to knowing the extent of my regular pendulum swing between loving it and wanting to stay and being entirely fed-up and wanting to go. I don't always share it here either.

I agree that John is being very public about the whole thing. But the swing back and forth is normal and I can empathise with it.

User avatar
mom3
Posts: 3949
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 14:11

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by mom3 » 02 May 2014, 13:02

I agree that John is being very public about the whole thing. But the swing back and forth is normal and I can empathise with it.
Maybe that is my impatience with him is his publicness about it. I too have better stretches and seasons with this. That is why this board/ward is so helpful to me, it's why I love the podcast community, and the other bloggernacle sites. They do help.

I guess the dual frustration for me is that his public - persona sometimes hurts the cause of Stayer's rather than helps. Which brings me to the second frustration, I let him into my life. It's the same wrestle I have with GA's. I pick up the dung on the road and should just leave it. So he swings, I lash out, and our stupid cycle continues. Clearly I need to grow up, too.
"I stayed because it was God and Jesus Christ that I wanted to follow and be like, not individual human beings." Chieko Okazaki Dialogue interview

"I am coming to envision a new persona for the Church as humble followers of Jesus Christ....Joseph and his early followers came forth with lots of triumphalist rhetoric, but I think we need a new voice, one of humility, friendship and service. We should teach people to believe in God because it will soften their hearts and make them more willing to serve." - Richard Bushman

User avatar
On Own Now
Posts: 1736
Joined: 18 Jan 2012, 12:45

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by On Own Now » 02 May 2014, 13:26

Great point mom3. I get vacillating. What's tough is that John Dehlin doesn't speak for me. I'm sure he's a great guy, and I wish him the best of luck in every endeavor, but he's very well-known in certain circles and I don't agree with him in his approach or even some conclusions. I'm sort of sensitive to this because I am an Atheist. I can't stand having people take the name Atheist and then talk as if they are talking for me. I feel the same kinds of feelings about JD. Again, though, I hope he finds his way, just as I hope for myself.
"Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of another." --Romans 14:13

jhp33
Posts: 49
Joined: 06 Jan 2014, 10:09

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by jhp33 » 02 May 2014, 14:31

This is all just very indicative to me of the peril of setting up humans as standards to which we should look and emulate. Whether it's John Dehlin or the prophet, it only leads to frustration.

Of course, between John Dehlin and the prophet, one of the two has been pretty clear that he's not asking us to follow him. The other, not so much. For that I give John lots of credit. He never asked any of us to hold him up as a standard. And yet many do. That's not his fault. It's ours.

To me, John personifies the very real struggle that exists in trying to carve out a non-orthodox life inside the church. His pendulum swings have made it easier for me to not get so frustrated when I think one day I have it all figured out, only to have it all come crashing down the next Sunday. I expect frustration and disappointment and a lack of resolution because that's what I see John going through.

So while some of you may be annoyed, I find comfort in John's story, as much of a roller coaster as it may be.

And, if we're really being honest, John has done such great work that Mormon Stories isn't the only outlet you have available to turn to if you're going through a faith crisis (this board included).

So, if you don't like what you're hearing, just change the channel. Sometimes it really is that simple.

Curt Sunshine
Site Admin
Posts: 16517
Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 20:24

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by Curt Sunshine » 02 May 2014, 19:51

I love and admire John - but I also am convinced he has some kind of condition that makes him swing wildly from one position to another. This appears to be one of his down emotional times.
I see through my glass, darkly - as I play my saxophone in harmony with the other instruments in God's orchestra. (h/t Elder Joseph Wirthlin)

Even if people view many things differently, the core Gospel principles (LOVE; belief in the unseen but hoped; self-reflective change; symbolic cleansing; striving to recognize the will of the divine; never giving up) are universal.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

User avatar
SamBee
Posts: 5341
Joined: 14 Mar 2010, 04:55

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by SamBee » 03 May 2014, 08:27

Ray DeGraw wrote:I love and admire John - but I also am convinced he has some kind of condition that makes him swing wildly from one position to another. This appears to be one of his down emotional times.
You've mentioned this before. I really think though, trying to ride two horses at the same time may be part of the problem. Sometimes you've got to commit to one position for a while, and see whether it is better than the other.
DASH1730 "An Area Authority...[was] asked...who...would go to the Telestial kingdom. His answer: "murderers, adulterers and a lot of surprised Mormons!"'
1ST PRES 1978 "[LDS] believe...there is truth in many religions and philosophies...good and great religious leaders... have raised the spiritual, moral, and ethical awareness of their people. When we speak of The [LDS] as the only true church...it is...authorized to administer the ordinances...by Jesus Christ... we do not mean... it is the only teacher of truth."

User avatar
Orson
Site Admin
Posts: 2252
Joined: 22 Oct 2008, 14:44

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by Orson » 03 May 2014, 15:22

I am confident John feels called to do everything that he does, and I'd say it's his place to do it. He will benefit/account for his own actions, and it is our job to individually live as we feel called.

Obviously I make different decisions for myself, but we play different instruments in God's orchestra.
My avatar - both physical and spiritual.

I first found faith, and thought I had all truth. I then discovered doubt, and claimed a more accurate truth. Now I’ve greeted paradox and a deeper truth than I have ever known.

User avatar
nibbler
Posts: 4081
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 07:34
Location: Ten miles west of the exact centre of the universe

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by nibbler » 03 May 2014, 18:12

For the uninitiated... who is John Dehlin? A NOM that likes the spotlight?
If one dream dies, dream another dream. If you get knocked down, get back up and go again.
― Joel Osteen

User avatar
cwald
Posts: 3628
Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 06:39

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by cwald » 03 May 2014, 19:56

nibbler wrote:For the uninitiated... who is John Dehlin? A NOM that likes the spotlight?
This made me laugh. But I doubt it was meant to be funny.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
  Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn't participate enthusiastically. - Robert Kirby

User avatar
DarkJedi
Posts: 6593
Joined: 24 Aug 2013, 20:53

Re: John Dehlin is leaving the building

Post by DarkJedi » 04 May 2014, 08:35

nibbler wrote:For the uninitiated... who is John Dehlin? A NOM that likes the spotlight?
I guess I was thinking that everyone that had been here for a little while knows who he is - so I don't know if you're being facetious Nibbler, or if you're asking for an explanation just to aid those who don't know. I would say go ahead and Google him or just click the link in Sheldon's OP. Not knowing John personally, I do think the Wikipedia article does a fair job at explaining who he is. For me it's enough to know that he is the "founder of the feast" in which many of us partake regularly and who reaffirms for me that it's OK to question.
Last edited by DarkJedi on 04 May 2014, 09:09, edited 1 time in total.
In the absence of knowledge or faith there is always hope.

Once there was a gentile...who came before Hillel. He said "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."

My Introduction

Post Reply